Club Entropy

[benjenbav]

Largely, I think you are right, but there are still pockets of people who do stuff out of "community spirit". The trick for a club is to work out how you attract those people and extract money from the rests to help them do what they want to do! IME a passionate leader who can communicate a vision can make a huge difference. Too many club presidents/commodores (not just in sailing) have got there because nobody else wanted to do it or because they served their time on the committee and people thought it was their turn.

Your money would be safe! This is exactly the challenge that all sports clubs face. Often the only reason people join is because they "have to" to access some facility - whether its a tennis court, moorings or mountain hut or because to compete seriously you need to be a member for license/insurance type reasons. Its a failing of many clubs to sell the advantages (if there are any) of being a member.

In a quite different sport I spent a lot of time with a working group from the national governing body trying to help them tackle exactly this issue - people want to "pay to play" not join the club and volunteer. Despite all the evidence being quite clear, the solutions were just too radical and there was insufficient momentum to support moving away from the status quo.

I wonder if the future for clubs lies in purely paying memberships - with the running of the club largely or wholly in the hands of paid executive staff- rather than participatory membership.

Take, for example, traditional gentlemen’s clubs.

Members derive advantages of somewhere to stay and to eat - usually quite well - at reasonable cost (if one forgets the cost of the annual subscription).

Members get a vote on important decisions but the day to day running of the club is, by necessity as well as design, in the hands of paid staff, possibly answering to a committee to which the Holy Ghost would struggle to be admitted.

Membership numbers of the most exclusive of such clubs are very strong. But there is a clear - as you say, ‘pay to play’ benefit that underpins that.

 

[Alicatt]

Wow - I'd love to see your idea of a formal club!

In our club? No blazers or formal attire, come and go as you please. We do have restrictions on what the club and it's members can do, that is down to the fact that we have to follow the regulations of the Vlaamsewaterweg and the Vlaamse Pleziervaart Federation, The VPF is a lot more relaxed than the VVW ( De Vlaamse Vereniging voor Watersport ) which is very formal in that there is a very strict dress code for when you go to their affiliated clubs/marinas, bottle green blazer with , white slacks, white shirt and club tie.

I am a member of the VPF though our club, and an affiliate or tourist member of the VVW - just to get the discounts on the marina tariffs as there are more VVW marinas than VPF - the VVW usually have a lot more facilities compared with the much more laid back VPF

I just have to remember which pennant to fly before reaching the marina

 

[oldgit]

Had no intention of joining any Poncy Boat Club with Blazers n Ties and also convinced at the time that there was nothing they could teach me about boating but they could obviously learn loads from me.
15 years ago, was persuaded by a chap who we did business with, to join his MoBo club, shortly after purchasing my first proper boat.
Had been up all the usual dead ends, ie various tent boats with outdrives and thinking that going round in circles with the coast always in sight was all there was to life.
Of course had to be proposed and seconded, like most clubs, the firster was the business collegue and the seconder somebody who happened to be at the bar at the time, both had of course both known me for years.
The Interview.
A wonderful old couple already into their late 70s, both wearing blazers ,who, it turned out had taken a Princess 30DS down to "Med " and up to the Baltic via several EU capitol cities.
Very quickly learnt that the Blazer Wearers usually had a some very grubby pairs of overalls aboard somewhere and ended up following them to some places would never have chanced going too prior to joining the club.
Its never to late to learn.

 

[Seastoke]

If they could have that interview again , you would still be stuck in the Mudway.

 

[ylop]

Of course had to be proposed and seconded, like most clubs,

Not sure that’s true? It was 40 yrs ago, and some clubs still have those sort of entry requirements but if any club today is discussing it’s falling membership/ageing demographic and still requires you to know two existing members (even if there are work around for it) then they only have themselves to blame! I don’t play golf but used to work with someone 20 yrs ago who was serious about it and many golf clubs were trying getting rid of such requirements back then.

As for interviews! Even if these things are only a formality, no wonder the RYA are trying to get clubs to think about inclusion!

 

[oldgit]

"Stuck in the Mudway."

Allow me to interpret. ?
The Mudway. The area with a wide range of boating on the doorstep. 24/7.
Upstream to the tidal lock and non tidal waters, the plan "B" when the summer weather is rubbish.
Or downstream .
Sheltered mid winter boating throughout the entire year in lots of little creeks and backwaters.
Turn left at the end of the estuary and a few hours later your Marina slap bang in the middle of your capitol city.
Ideal for that long weekend but keep going along all that "Liquid History" .
The Thames, first stop, the mooring right outside Hampton Court Palace (First 24h free £10 after) with about 50 navigable miles beyond.
Head straight across past Essex and all the East Coast rivers and Harbours, even the Broads for the brave .
Down all that ?
Why not nip across to foreign parts, an easy days cruise, its the paperwork thats a drag or perhaps a bit closer to home, the Channel Ports.
Ramsgate and Brighton, beyond that lies Dragons and

When a man is tired of The Medway , he is tired of life; for there is in The Medway, all that life can afford"
OG.

 

[The Q]

It works the other way,

A Broads hire motorboat went missing for some years...

It was eventually found on the Medway!! With a live aboard.
It must have sneaked out of one of the two Broad to sea ports at night and somehow navigated down there..
It couldn't have gone by road as it was big enough to need a police escort..

 

[dgadee]

There's always talk about getting youngsters involved, but the overheads are huge. Only some clubs can do it. And then they usually lose interest at end of their teens and the input is lost.

We have work parties but the toilets are cleaned by a cleaner. I think about £1100 a year for mooring and shore storage. Lifts extra but pretty good value. Royal club nearby has employees and costs much more but has a pic of Princess Royal on the wall. What I envy is their boat taxi.

 

[ylop]

There's always talk about getting youngsters involved, but the overheads are huge. Only some clubs can do it. And then they usually lose interest at end of their teens and the input is lost.

It’s a real challenge for all sports: attract them young enough that it becomes their main sport, keep them interested when they move to high school, maintain that interest as life moves on with exams and interest in boys/girls, and then to somehow keep the interest once they progress to work/uni. And even if you manage that and survive the early twenties, then work, marriage, kids etc all take their toll on either participation on membership. Personally having never been that good at racing I think clubs become a bit too obsessed with racing for juniors - enabling progressively increasing adventure as juniors age might be something that could be achieved perhaps with some of the ageing boats which are difficult to flog on?

We have work parties but the toilets are cleaned by a cleaner.

I don’t think it’s necessarily an issue if they are done on a rota by members - just don’t make it your opening line!

I think about £1100 a year for mooring and shore storage. Lifts extra but pretty good value. Royal club nearby has employees and costs much more but has a pic of Princess Royal on the wall. What I envy is their boat taxi.

25 yrs ago my local club at the time employed students over the summer to provide a water taxi - might be a way to keep them engaged in the club, although I don’t know how many stayed involved after graduation.

 

[Egret]

Not costly to get youngsters involved in boating if a club wants to - just needs time - assortment of club dinghies and loaned/ 'hand me downs' - maybe link with local schools - brings new people into the club, including parents and grannies - spend some money at the galley/bar - maybe then take part in activities themselves. Probably easier to get youngsters into a club than older people. Many youngsters leave at 18 but the core of active members probably started as cadets at the age of 8 or so - Volunteers for everything not compulsory as the world changes - membership fees and bar prices can be at a level to cover professional help needed - bar, galley, cleaning etc without being excessive.

- There is something special to see 60 children on cadet evening, all just floating around and singing.

 

[dgadee]

I have never been a member of a club with a bar. Even when I drank. It's a different scene to old codgers having a cup of tea.

 

[Newbroom]

Bought a boat 18 months ago. Moored in a marina on the Thames. There is a clubhouse, which I've never been in. To become a member you have to be nominated by 2 members, if you don'tknow anyonehow do I get nominated? . Club has a website thats never updated, and until recently the same for Facebook. So I don't know what events are coming up so I've never seen the need to look at how to join. Club has recently announced it is closing

I have been a member of TWYC for ten years even having the privilege of being its Commodore for a year. Yes we do expect people to be nominated, but we do let people visit the club and be signed in by whoever is on the bar that day. You may do this up to 6 times before having to join. Do we wear blazers and tie yes 2 or 3 times a year for formal events.
Our bar is run by club members all our cooking and maintenance is also done by club members. We have a large event program every year organise up and down river cruise in company,( 16 boats from the club attended Dunkirk last year) We have our own training officer and best of all beer is only £3.50 a pint. So if you want to be part of an active club and help in its running you could do far worst than to join us.

 

[Alicatt]

The local sea cadets (Marine Kadetten) have a nice ex-patrol boat V902 Libération that they use, they take it between Geel and Leopoldsburg, their main base is at Leopoldsburg but a lot of time they keep the boat (ship?) in Geel. The Marine Kadetten at Geel also have a small fast boat The V222 Victory Onze vloot

They are regularly up and down the canal here with the V902 and sometimes the V222

 

[Chris_d]

I have been a member of TWYC for ten years even having the privilege of being its Commodore for a year. Yes we do expect people to be nominated, but we do let people visit the club and be signed in by whoever is on the bar that day. You may do this up to 6 times before having to join. Do we wear blazers and tie yes 2 or 3 times a year for formal events.
Our bar is run by club members all our cooking and maintenance is also done by club members. We have a large event program every year organise up and down river cruise in company,( 16 boats from the club attended Dunkirk last year) We have our own training officer and best of all beer is only £3.50 a pint. So if you want to be part of an active club and help in its running you could do far worst than to join us.

Do you mean TMYC?

 

[sharpness]

I have never been a member of a club with a bar. Even when I drank. It's a different scene to old codgers having a cup of tea.

Club where I moor has a fantastically well stocked bar including a kettle. Covers all bases...

 

[ylop]

I have never been a member of a club with a bar. Even when I drank. It's a different scene to old codgers having a cup of tea.

I believe having a bar might have become a bit more trouble that it used to be! There was a time when the bar was closed but regulars knew where the keys were kept and “broke in” to the bar and nobody bothered so long as the stuff was paid for and the glasses washed. Now you need to do an online course to serve behind the sailing club bar!

 

[Newbroom]

Do you mean TMYC?

No The Windsor Yacht Club TWYC

 

[Neil1300r]

I have been a member of TWYC for ten years even having the privilege of being its Commodore for a year. Yes we do expect people to be nominated, but we do let people visit the club and be signed in by whoever is on the bar that day. You may do this up to 6 times before having to join. Do we wear blazers and tie yes 2 or 3 times a year for formal events.
Our bar is run by club members all our cooking and maintenance is also done by club members. We have a large event program every year organise up and down river cruise in company,( 16 boats from the club attended Dunkirk last year) We have our own training officer and best of all beer is only £3.50 a pint. So if you want to be part of an active club and help in its running you could do far worst than to join us.

Thanks for the information. I don't drink, so price of a pint I don't care about. The marina we are in was chosen because its 14 minutes from home, its the nearest one. I may pop in though if passing on the boat

 

[franksingleton]

In the 1970a we were on an ICC cruise west from Salcombe. At one RY, the men were allowed to use the front door even in their wet gear. My wife, the only female, had to use the side entrance. But she got the last laugh in the form of a bath in a private room. We men
had to use a communal shower. Very public school.
About 45 years later on our next visit it had changed. We had to wonder when?
.