Mayday question

[fireball]

I've called a pan pan for another vessel - as they were a racing skiff it's unlikely they had a vhf of their own ... Just did the straight call and used my boat name then confirmed details with Solent cg - they weren't bothered if it's a relay or not, they just wanted to get the situation resolved.

Fwiw I would only use a relay if I'd heard the call first - by using a non relay call then the cg know I've initiated it - and indeed the vessel I'm calling for may not be in trouble at all....

 

[Buck Turgidson]

That seems to settle the argument since a VHF examiner is most unlikely to ask a question yo which he does not know the answer!

I was in this position.. I called 999.

His instructor was mistaken.

http://life.itu.int/radioclub/rr/chapt-7.pdf

32.16 § 11 A station in the mobile or mobile-satellite service which learns that a mobile unit is in distress (for example, by a radio call or by observation) shall initiate and transmit a distress alert relay or a distress call relay on behalf of the mobile unit in distress once it has ascertained that any of the following circumstances apply: (WRC-07)
32.17 a) on receiving a distress alert or call which is not acknowledged by a coast station or another vessel within five minutes (see also Nos. 32.29A and 32.31);
(WRC-07)
32.18 b) on learning that the mobile unit in distress is otherwise unable or incapable of participating in distress communications, if the master or other person responsible for the mobile unit not in distress considers that further help is necessary. (WRC-07)

 

[alan_d]

That seems to settle the argument since a VHF examiner is most unlikely to ask a question yo which he does not know the answer!

Almost true. I suggest "... to which he does not believe he knows the answer."

 

[prv]

By the way, for all those insisting that you can only relay a radio call, not any other indication of distress. I have several times heard the Coastguard themselves calling Mayday Relay in order to announce a sighting of red flares, which was reported to them by telephone. Red flares are assumed to indicate grave and imminent danger, so it is a Mayday level call, but of course Lee on Solent were not in danger themselves hence Relay.

Pete

 

[NormanS]

By the way, for all those insisting that you can only relay a radio call, not any other indication of distress. I have several times heard the Coastguard themselves calling Mayday Relay in order to announce a sighting of red flares, which was reported to them by telephone. Red flares are assumed to indicate grave and imminent danger, so it is a Mayday level call, but of course Lee on Solent were not in danger themselves hence Relay.

Pete

That is my reading of it.

 

[st599]

Interesting. I'm with LK on that. I thought a Relay was a repetition of what you'd heard which also gives the casualties name and position.

In the case of seeing another boat in distress I'd go through the process ... MMM / this is / position ... then the nature of the distress would be " I can see a vessel sinking/on fire/ a man in the water etc "

How can you relay something you haven't heard?

Only the master of the vessel involved can declare it's a Mayday. If it's not your boat, you can't dclare Mayday, but you can call Mayday Relay based on visual information alone.

 

[st599]

That seems to settle the argument since a VHF examiner is most unlikely to ask a question yo which he does not know the answer!

I was in this position.. I called 999.

My VHF examiner told me, straight faced, that range had nothing to do with transmit power and that a heterodyne was a type of yacht aerial.

 

[Seajet]

By the way, for all those insisting that you can only relay a radio call, not any other indication of distress. I have several times heard the Coastguard themselves calling Mayday Relay in order to announce a sighting of red flares, which was reported to them by telephone. Red flares are assumed to indicate grave and imminent danger, so it is a Mayday level call, but of course Lee on Solent were not in danger themselves hence Relay.

Pete

Maybe it wasn't a relay, they'd seen the idiotic changes ahead !

 

[Aardee]

It's a distinction probably lost in the mists of time, but the term MAYDAY comes from the French "M'aidez", meaning Help Me - Which would imply a MAYDAY call would be for your own vessel.

However, it's better you call it in incorrectly than dither around working out the "correct" way to do it

 

[mikemanor]

I was asked a similar question on my VHF course last year. I replied that it would be a Mayday Relay, the instructor told me I should call a Mayday.

Sadly, he was wrong! One of the questions on the written papers covers this very point. (A question about sighting of red flares) It's a Mayday Relay as agreed by several posters above.

 

[Cantata]

Sadly, he was wrong! One of the questions on the written papers covers this very point. (A question about sighting of red flares) It's a Mayday Relay as agreed by several posters above.

Absolutely right. That is what is taught on the SRC course. Any boat fitted with a usable VHF is supposed to have someone on board who has passed the exam and would know this.

 

[OceanSprint]

Well, I passed the exam 2 years ago, and don't know it - and it wasn't covered in the course, hence why I was asking in the first place.

Looks like the quality of SRC courses, and examiners, varies greatly. My course was aimed at guys using VHF sets offshore in fishing / standby / oil related vessels, rather than yachtsmen.

reading the posts my conclusion is correct way is Mayday relay, but doesn't really matter in real life - just get the information to the coastgaurd ASAP.

Thanks to all.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Any boat fitted with a usable VHF is supposed to have someone on board who has passed the exam and would know this.

Where is that stipulated?

 

[Birdseye]

My VHF examiner told me, straight faced, that range had nothing to do with transmit power and that a heterodyne was a type of yacht aerial.

Well he is half right! Range doesnt have much to do with transmission power because modern radios are so sensitive that it doesnt really matter that much. To gice you an illustration, a pal does qrp ham competitions transmitting to and receiving from the USA using one watt. People have done so with far less power than that. The heterodyne bit is nonsense

I am an SRC trainer / examiner - which doesnt make me omniscient of course. But I was trained that the correct answer to the OP's question would be to transmit a mayday relay. TBH its more important that he transmits than worries about what sort of message to give - the coastguard will sort it out. But its a relay because the OP is not the one in imminent danger and we dont want confusion about who is.

 

[mikemanor]

Looks like the quality of SRC courses, and examiners, varies greatly.

Which, no doubt, is why the UK SRC was red-carded by CEPT and the course is now a minimum of 10 hours study followed by independent examination.

You reap what you sow.

 

[mikemanor]

Where is that stipulated?

Not strictly true - the radio may only be operated by a qualified person. If there is no one on board qualified, then it cannot be operated except in an emergency where there is a risk to life.

Para 9 and 10 of the UK Ship's Radio Licence

Radio equipment use
9 The Licensee must ensure that the radio equipment covered by this Licence is
constructed and used only in accordance with the terms specified in the schedules
relevant to this Licence.
10 The Licensee must ensure that the radio equipment is used only by persons:
(a) who have been authorised by the Licensee to do so and who have been made aware
of, and comply with, the terms of the Licence; and
(b) who hold, or are under the direct personal supervision of a person who holds a
relevant Maritime Radio Operator’s Certificate of Competence and valid Authority to
Operate.

Para 12 covers emergencies

12 Notwithstanding the terms set out in Clause 10 above, in the event of an emergency
where there is a risk to life, the radio equipment may be used by any person to summon
assistance.

 

[Cantata]

I think that is generally construed as meaning at least one person on board with the ticket, and others without the ticket may use the set under their supervision.
Extracting from those rules: "The Licensee must ensure that the radio equipment is used only by persons......who hold, or are under the direct personal supervision of a person who holds a relevant Maritime Radio Operator’s Certificate of Competence and valid Authority to Operate."

 

[DJE]

Only the master of the vessel involved can declare it's a Mayday.

So how does he do that if he's fallen overboard?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Not strictly true - the radio may only be operated by a qualified person. If there is no one on board qualified, then it cannot be operated except in an emergency where there is a risk to life.

That's what I thought.

 

[mikemanor]

So how does he do that if he's fallen overboard?

He's no longer the master - the mate has taken command