Maxwell windlass 10 VW looks interesting (to a windlass noob)

[mogmog2]

Hello, I'm looking for a windlass for our new boat. Never had or used one before and on a steep (and deep) learning curve, but have sailed all my life so not new to the game.

I had favoured a vertical model for it's neatness and reduced weight. However, as I read & watch more I'm wondering if accessibility to the rode isn't being sacrificed for style? I ve just seen and was quite liking, the basic and open simplicity of the Vetus/Maxwell 10VW where the chain & warp functions are separate and easily accessible, as opposed to the sleek vertical models (Lewmar V series et al ) where the chain is snug to the gypsy and inaccessible, then goes under cover before disappearing down the hole. If there's a snarl-up or something, it looks like you'd probably have to remove the cover, requiring tools & a couple of easily-lost screws? Presumably this doesn't happen too much, but I like to head off problems, especially in a boating environment.

I've also seen problems with the splice on a mixed rode (I prefer this too)* - is this likely to be user error or just something you have to live with?

With the 10VW you run the rope round the capstan first then the chain through the gypsy. Whilst that's a bit of extra work and probably regressive by the latest standards but I quite like the idea of tools dedicated to the job rather than being a jack of all trades (ie the all-in-one gypsy possibly being not so good at handling rope?) and also having everything being open and accessible, especially between the windlass & the spurling pipe.

Am I worrying unduly & actually the chain/warp gypsies just work very well? Or is KISS the better approach to head off Sod's law, which can be pretty active at sea?

What about spares/service parts for Maxwell in the UK? I've been aware of people waiting weeks or possibly months for Vetus bits (although that may not be representative.)
Thanks
UPDATE
I popped down to the boat last night and realised that the Maxwell vw1000 wouldn't suit anyway due to the chain fall needed and the necessary location of the chain pipe, so it's back to an "all in one" that sits over the chain pipe hole.




*eg here 12mm 3 strand nylon splice lewmar windlass probs and other instances of problems

 

[dunedin]

Personally I would strongly recommend the simplicity of an all chain rode (ideally 60m say). Then forget about the rope drum altogether.
Makes much neater and simpler.
Can’t comment on the Maxwell but we have a Quick vertical, chain only, windlass.

 

[mogmog2]

Personally I would strongly recommend the simplicity of an all chain rode (ideally 60m say). Then forget about the rope drum altogether.
Makes much neater and simpler.
Can’t comment on the Maxwell but we have a Quick vertical, chain only, windlass.

The rope drum is also for other operations and this is our boat till we swallow the anchor, so I think it's worth the few extra bob as decrepitude overtakes us...

 

[Rappey]

I prefer a horizontal as its far easier to deal with and easy to remove the chain from the gypsie if needed.

 

[mogmog2]

I prefer a horizontal as its far easier to deal with and easy to remove the chain from the gypsie if needed.

Thanks, that's what appealed about this one though, it uses the existing spurling pipe AFAICT, so is totally accessible. The horizontal one I was reading up on just now had the chain going down a hole under the gypsy - i had thought that horizontal ones did that too, but the manual I was reading proved that to be incorrect.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks, that's what appealed about this one though, it uses the existing spurling pipe AFAICT, so is totally accessible. The horizontal one I was reading up on just now had the chain going down a hole under the gypsy - i had thought that horizontal ones did that too, but the manual I was reading proved that to be incorrect.

Choice of windlass depends very much on the boat and the layout of the deck and anchor locker. I have had both vertical and horizontal and on balance prefer horizontal although the drum is arguab ly less useful than on a vertical. As in post#2 all chain sufficient to cover most regular anchoring plus a means of extending with rope avoids any issues of rope/chain splices running through the gypsy. What boat do you have and what sort of cruising are you planning?

 

[Neeves]

My take is slightly different but not negating previous comment.

You need to look at the ground tackle as a combined bit of kit and start from scratch.

One question is - if you are thinking of a mixed rode - do you have room for the textile portion and can you keep it separate from the chain. Wet rope and chain is a recipe for a shorter life chain.

Most chain specified by boat builders is over sized. You don't need big chain for strength - it will never be tested near its WLL and you can replace the catenary implicit in using heavy chain by simply adding a decent , light and cheap snubber.

But go back a bit further and define what size of chain you will be using and is it over specified, is the chain too big. Move down a size from 8mm to 6mm and you really should not need a capstan (which will be a trip hazard and get in the way of any work you need to do on furling gear). With 6mm chain instead of 8mm or 8mm instead of 10mm means you have much more room for strorage of the chain and less need for a permanent mixed rode - just a means of adding rope should you need it.

We cannot answer your questions in the thread unless you tell us a bit about your yacht, vessel and how you are going to use it, see Tranona's post.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

We had used a Muir Atlantic with 8mm gypsy and swapped it for a Maxwell RC6 - 8 (6mm gypsy but designed round a yacht with 8mm chain) when we downsized from 8mm to 6mm chain. So though we had 6mm chain we had a 1,000 watt motor. 38' x 22'6" 7t cat. The Muir solenoids were a constant source of failure and customer contact minimal. In complete contrast Maxwell customer contact was superb and they run a system whereby at weekend, public holidays (when most people use their windlass) they have an employee on duty to answer emergency telephone or email queries (though this is staffed from Oz/NZ and you need to have the relevant email address).

Most windlass issues, almost any supplier, are owner issues - lack of servicing. Most windlass should be serviced annually, check oil, grease shaft, clean up location. But windlass are very enduring and some never appear to enjoy any servicing - at all. In terms of fears of inaccessibility of spare parts - we never had need and windlass are very simple. The spares you are likely to need are electrical; not mechanical, solenoid, switches and that's about it. If your gears fails - you did not check the oil in the gearbox

When you buy your new windlass take it apart at home, then you know what is needed to service, and then coat all the bolts, which should be stainless, with Duralac, or grease equivalent, as many stainless bolts or studs are in contact with an aluminium casting and without protection and a delay in servicing can result in seized studs. Recalling past windlass threads.....over the last 10/15 years - most windlass issues are incompatibility of stainless in aluminium castings. When you service your windlass - have the same Duralac/grease at hand when you re-assemble.

Invest that little attention to detail and your windlass will outlive your ownership of the yacht.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

If you find that the chain is over specified, bigger than necessary, then you can use smaller chain, saves money. You have more room in your locker for chain and maybe fenders. You have the chance of using a smaller motor on the windlass (though its only the chain that is smaller and the yacht is still the same weight (and everyone at some time uses the windlass to pull the yacht to the anchor (so better to keep some watts in reserve). But you now might be able to use smaller cables to power the windlass, if the motor is smaller, again saving money. The breaker for the windlass can also be smaller - more money saved. If you have downsized 'everything' the requite,memnt of the battery to power the windlass is reduced.

When we downsized our chain we kept the same size motor, 1,000 watts. We like to have power in reserve.

Most windlass makers recommend using the engine to move the yacht forward to the anchor when retrieving, not the windlass. My view is - everyone at some stage uses the windlass to move the yacht forward and if this stresses the windlass..... you have the wrong windlass.

Buying a new yacht is the best time to investigate the rode (and the size of the anchor). NOT when you have committed to large chain.

 

[shanemax]

I am not a young guy but have been pulling my 15 kilo bruce with all chain, by hand for all my life and while I have the strength and puff in me will continue doing so. If you go out on a boat for a few days exercise is essential as most of the time you are just sitting or laying around.

 

[Tranona]

I am not a young guy but have been pulling my 15 kilo bruce with all chain, by hand for all my life and while I have the strength and puff in me will continue doing so. If you go out on a boat for a few days exercise is essential as most of the time you are just sitting or laying around.

Good for you. However once you have had a power windlass you would not go back. There is nothing virtuous about making hard work of anchoring. What size boat do you have that needs a 15kg anchor?

 

[Boathook]

I am not a young guy but have been pulling my 15 kilo bruce with all chain, by hand for all my life and while I have the strength and puff in me will continue doing so. If you go out on a boat for a few days exercise is essential as most of the time you are just sitting or laying around.

I used to be able to do that but one day when single handed, wind. tidal current, etc made it impossible; even using the engine. Had to stay put for a few extra hours until it settled down. Installed a windlass that winter.
Staying put wasn't a problem as such, but then I was having to motor against a fairly strong tidal current rather than it taking me.

 

[vyv_cox]

I had the Maxwell unit that Neeves has. Initially had one without a capstan, all chain rode, but we sold that to buy one with a capstan. This was specifically to use berthing stern-to on slime lines in Greece, where it was totally successful.

For a mixed rope/chain rode, Maxwell say that the gypsy will take both. I think that trying to use capstan first then transferring chain to gypsy would be almost impossible.

 

[dunedin]

I am not a young guy but have been pulling my 15 kilo bruce with all chain, by hand for all my life and while I have the strength and puff in me will continue doing so. If you go out on a boat for a few days exercise is essential as most of the time you are just sitting or laying around.

The angles typically involved in pulling chain up are almost designed to wreck your back. If already have any slight back issues, this will make it massively worse.
An electric windlass is massively cheaper than a private funded back operation.

 

[stav]

The angles typically involved in pulling chain up are almost designed to wreck your back. If already have any slight back issues, this will make it massively worse.
An electric windlass is massively cheaper than a private funded back operation.

Yes, make sure you pull with the legs and not the back. Have a westerly Conway (for reference) and have a manual windlass and mostly pull in by hand, break the anchor out with the windlass. 10mm chain and a warp in à bag with a hard spliced eye and cable ties…. Which I add at deeper anchorages. Although à powered windlass is on the list as I get older………

 

[dansaskip]

I have a Maxwell RC8-8 the horizontal model with chain/rope gypsy. The gypsy handles the rope rode (Octoplait) well although a bit of care needed with the chain/rope splice, by this I mean slowing down the windlass when passing the splice. Generally as I have 50m of chain I anchor on all chain so it is not an issue. As others have commented I find it best to anchor on all chain. The extra rope rode is for those (rare) occasions when a greater length is needed.
Rappey makes a good point in that with the horizontal model it is easy to remove the chain from the gypsy- it is a very useful feature one I frequently use.

 

[mogmog2]

I am not a young guy but have been pulling my 15 kilo bruce with all chain, by hand for all my life and while I have the strength and puff in me will continue doing so. If you go out on a boat for a few days exercise is essential as most of the time you are just sitting or laying around.

I have spina bifida occulta. This is basically a section of not fully formed vertebrae in my lower back.
I'm also a cartographer of sorts, rather than being used to strenuous regular physical exercise. Trying to heft a 15kg Delta against the flood tide at East Head nearly did for me. A windlass is not negotiable on our new boat. We managed on our Centaur, but the Fulmar is a whole nother level.

 

[Tranona]

I have spina bifida occulta. This is basically a section of not fully formed vertebrae in my lower back.
I'm also a cartographer of sorts, rather than being used to strenuous regular physical exercise. Trying to heft a 15kg Delta against the flood tide at East Head nearly did for me. A windlass is not negotiable on our new boat. We managed on our Centaur, but the Fulmar is a whole nother level.

You might consider going down a size in anchor, replacing the Delta with a more efficient anchor such as a Vulcan (plenty of other choices!) and 6mm chain. A Lewmar Pro 1000 would be a good choice of windlass for a Fulmar. It does not have a drum, but TBH that is rarely used if ever. For anchoring an all chain rode of 50m with the provision to add rope if needed is more than adequate for sailing around the channel. Worth asking on the WOA site for what other Fulmar owners have fitted.

 

[mogmog2]

Thanks everyone, especially Neeves - that's a lot or typing effort, and it's appreciated.
I've sailed on and off since small and have just moved up from our Centaur which we've had for a number of years. On that we had a 10kg Delta, 25m 8mm chain and miles of 12mm warp). We anchor most of the time and that combination has held us in winds > 25kt gusting 35.
The new boat's a Fulmar (4.5t), no deck anchor well, smallish locker/constrained height and with a new 15kg Delta and (35m I think) of new 8mm chain.
However, I popped down to the boat last night and realised that the Maxwell vw1000 wouldn't suit anyway due to the chain fall needed and the necessary location of the chain pipe, so it's back to an "all in one" that sits over the chain pipe hole.
I've also realised that, AFAICT, a windlass isn't an automatic system - there's still input needed on the foredeck and all it does really is the hard work. That's fine, it's what we need and I wasn't buying it for a push button experience.
I still feel the warping drum is worth the inconvenience it theoretically presents, so this leans towards the vertical option - Lewmar v2 being the front runner (I've read enough incidents where Lofrans customer service hasn't sparkled (downright piss poor TBH) to deter me from them) and all other things being equal, I'm happy to support a British company (even though they're now owned by a US one )
Neeves, I'm with Peter Smith on catenary, rodes and chain sizing (I suspect you're familiar with that work) , so you raise some interesting points and I'll explore that avenue, thanks. I looked into chain size when getting the gear for the Centaur and concluded that 8mm was unnecessary (it was specced with 1/4" originally) . I couldn't bring myself to go down to 6mm and 7mm was out of stock when we needed to get it, so we ran with 8mm which I've always been a bit unhappy about. Definitely worth revisiting on the new boat though. I'm also keen on not having excess weight in the bow, but as we anchor a lot, I don't want to over-prune it.

 

[mogmog2]

I prefer a horizontal as its far easier to deal with and easy to remove the chain from the gypsie if needed.

I was a bit concerned about that for most vertical models and that's what I liked about this Maxwell one. Sadly it won't suit our layout.
I think a warping drum on a horizontal windlass would lose a lot of utility though, to the point of not being of value to us. IDK though.