Maxwell RC8 Windlass Installation

[thomd]

I have just had a Maxwell RC8 windlass installed on my boat by a boatyard who tell me they are experienced in installing Maxwell units.

However I am concerned with the job done and wanted to get some thoughts on following points I have observed.

* There are many drops of water running down the vertical shaft of the windlass (luckily not reaching the motor) in the anchor locker and water is clearly trickling/dripping in from the deck with all the rain recently. See 1st photo. View attachment 38225

I assume that the only place water should get into the anchor locker is through the opening for the chain so I can't see why any water from the deck should be dripping down the unit under the deck. Assume that if rain is getting in will be much worse with waves on deck when sailing.

* No backing plate under the deck has been used so the three bolts holding the windlass are just fixed with a washer directly onto the GRP. See 2nd photo. View attachment 38226 Surely this is not a strong enough setup?

* Doesn't look like the through holes in the deck have been sealed with epoxy to stop the core getting wet or to offer protection from the chain coming through the deck opening.

I decided to pay to get the boatyard to install the windlass as I am planning to take the boat offshore and wanted a strong and professional installation.

Am I right in thinking that this is a substandard installation and I should get them to rectify these points? Anything else I have missed?
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[Trident]

You should definitely have a large sturdy backing plate rather than just penny washers - even if you have (and off shore you really should have) a bollard or cleat of some sort to attached the chain to, to take the load off the windlass, there will still be times when all that is holding however many tonnes of your boat to the bottom are those bolts...

The motor should cope with some water - after all there could be plenty coming in to the locker from the chain pipe but I would certainly check if the bolt holes were sealed as you don't want any water in your deck core as you rightly say.

 

[pvb]

You should definitely have a large sturdy backing plate rather than just penny washers...

Maxwell's installation instructions include "Fasten the windlass to the deck using the nuts and washers supplied". So I'd guess it's been installed according to their instructions. The RC8 manual also includes lots of cautionary notes about not using the windlass as a mooring point, not using it to break out a fouled anchor, always using a bollard or deck cleat to secure the chain, etc.

The installation instructions do say to seal the edges of holes in the deck with epoxy.

I don't think the windlass has been properly sealed, so you might well ask the boatyard to take a look at the water leaking in and refit it.

 

[vyv_cox]

I have a Maxwell RC8 that I installed after having owned the previous version for some years. Only reason for changing was that I needed a capstan drum. Mine is installed on a large piece of 20 mm ply beneath the deck. There is a brief description of the original installation at http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Windlass.aspx. Even with the plywood backing I sometimes see deflection of the deck, which at this point is heavily built. I do not think penny washers are anywhere near enough to take the loads you can expect.

There should be a seal that prevents almost any water from going down the shaft. There should also be a foam gasket that sits between the windlass and the deck. Two components can corrode badly in seawater. The first is the tubular component to which the screwed collar is attached, shown in your upper photo. This is made from aluminium and in the original version it was closed so that water lay inside it. This resulted in serious corrosion on mine, such that I had to cut it and the gearbox upper housing off with angle grinder. The later version has ports that allow the water to run out but I cannot see in your photo whether yours are like that.

The other possible corrosion site is the casing on the motor. The original had only a lick of paint but the later one seems to be powder coated. However, this will not last very well in a constant flow of seawater. I have wrapped mine in Denso tape to keep it corrosion free.

 

[pvb]

I do not think penny washers are anywhere near enough to take the loads you can expect.

If Maxwell supply washers and instruct installers to use them, they must be adequate. After all, the primary loading on the bolts is in shear, rather than tension.
.

 

[thomd]

There should also be a foam gasket that sits between the windlass and the deck.

It doesn't look like they have used the foam gasket. Instead the windlass has been mounted directly onto teak which itself is directly onto the deck (half of the teak lies on the GRP deck and half over treadmaster).

Looking up from below the dark teak can clearly be seen. Not the best photo View attachment 38228

I am tempted to ask them to take it all out and start again!

 

[vyv_cox]

If Maxwell supply washers and instruct installers to use them, they must be adequate. After all, the primary loading on the bolts is in shear, rather than tension.
.

Sorry, that is nonsense. It is a fundamental requirement that there must be something reasonable for the bolts to attach to. Many decks are lightweight, balsa or honeycomb cored, thin grp. None of these would take windlass forces, even with penny washers.

 

[pvb]

Sorry, that is nonsense. It is a fundamental requirement that there must be something reasonable for the bolts to attach to. Many decks are lightweight, balsa or honeycomb cored, thin grp. None of these would take windlass forces, even with penny washers.

So is it "nonsense" that the stress on the bolts is primarily shear? And as Maxwell supply washers and instruct people to use them, are you suggesting that's nonsense too?

 

[NormanS]

So is it "nonsense" that the stress on the bolts is primarily shear? And as Maxwell supply washers and instruct people to use them, are you suggesting that's nonsense too?

One of the few (IMHO) advantages of the horizontal gypsy type windlasses is that the pull from the chain onto the windlass applies at a much lower level, so when using the chain, and not the warping drum which may be fitted above the gypsy, the bolts are mostly in shear.

My windlass, which has a vertical gypsy, puts much more load on the holding down bolts. It also has a cleat formed on the top of the casing. If one were to put a serious load on this cleat, it would have a tendency to pull the windlass right out of the deck, and so is only used with caution.

 

[geem]

I don't think the issue is with shear on the bolts, its ripping the bolts and washers through the thin GRP into the core or compressing the core.
My windlass had been installed like this through a core deck. The windlass itself was mounted on a large teak pad but nothing other than washers had been installed below. The core was compressed substantially.
The new windlass now had a large spreader plate and 50x50 316 angle through the bolt fixing holes to spread the load evenly into the surrounding deck

 

[vyv_cox]

So is it "nonsense" that the stress on the bolts is primarily shear? And as Maxwell supply washers and instruct people to use them, are you suggesting that's nonsense too?

I don't have an argument with either statement. I don't agree, and neither would any sensible person, that the strength of the deck to which the windlass is being bolted is immaterial. There is another current thread in which a forestay pin, probably acting more in shear than windlass bolts, has deformed a 10 mm thick stainless steel stem fitting.