Maximum draft, best location for stress-free East coast sailing?

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apguy

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I'm definitely a novice to coastal sailing - as I am migrating from dinghy to the bigger things and any advice/viewpoint would be appreciated.

I'm looking at 29'-32' feet size. Currently trawling Apolloduck and visiting brokers, Beneteau First 285 or similar looks useful. Day or weekend sailing only.
I'm in Colchester so quite a lot is within 45 minutes drive, which locations offer the best access/cost/depth balance? I appreciate this is a "how long is a piece of string question" but for 1st year I'd like walk-on access and water at decent depth +/- HW. My nearest location is Brightlingsea but depth seems to be an issue there. Equally I also have West Mersea, Walton/Titchmarsh or even Shotley as options. Places like Maldon / Blackwater I am not familiar with.

I'd also prefer fin to bilge - for the sailing performance - but also because I'm unlikely to want to dry out on the mud, but what draft gives the most flexibility? At 30'ish feet most have a 1.5m fin, which I think works, but I've seen a few with 1.8m at 32 feet. Is that extra foot going to be a problem?

Thanks
 
apguy said:
I'm definitely a novice to coastal sailing - as I am migrating from dinghy to the bigger things and any advice/viewpoint would be appreciated.

I'm looking at 29'-32' feet size. Currently trawling Apolloduck and visiting brokers, Beneteau First 285 or similar looks useful. Day or weekend sailing only.
I'm in Colchester so quite a lot is within 45 minutes drive, which locations offer the best access/cost/depth balance? I appreciate this is a "how long is a piece of string question" but for 1st year I'd like walk-on access and water at decent depth +/- HW. My nearest location is Brightlingsea but depth seems to be an issue there. Equally I also have West Mersea, Walton/Titchmarsh or even Shotley as options. Places like Maldon / Blackwater I am not familiar with.

I'd also prefer fin to bilge - for the sailing performance - but also because I'm unlikely to want to dry out on the mud, but what draft gives the most flexibility? At 30'ish feet most have a 1.5m fin, which I think works, but I've seen a few with 1.8m at 32 feet. Is that extra foot going to be a problem?

Thanks
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Hi, and welcome to sailing for grown-ups. ;)
Many of us sail with fin keels quite happily. If you look at the orientation of the main channels it is obvious that much of your time will be either sailing dead upwind or downwind, and a good windward boat is almost essential for someone who enjoys that kind of sailing. Although there are plenty of boats with more draft, I would say that restrictions start when the draft goes over say 1.8m, My current 10m boat has 1.5m draft, an option from the standard 1.8. Fortunately, it has a sailing performance little different to its deeper sisters, but some shallow options from the '80s were definitely inferior. I would say that 1.5 is close to ideal for a boat in this size range but that if the boat you really want is 1.8 then you should go for it. A friend of mine sailed and raced a Sadler 32 with 6' draft happily for many years and had a mooring near ours (then) in Maylandsea creek.

From my home in Wivenhoe I can get to Mersea/Tollesbury in about the same time as to Titchmarsh, except when there is traffic build-up, so it was obvious that Titchmarsh was the better choice. In any case, we had sailed in the Blackwater for nearly thirty years. Although lovely once, the number of jet-skis and other motorised craft in recent years made it much less attractive to us. Much depends on where you want to drive to, but I can use back roads to escape bank holiday delays. Shotley may fill your needs but the drive from here is a bit tiresome. On t'other hand, I used to drive 2 1/2 hours or more from Hertfordshire, so maybe I am getting lazy with age.
 
We happily cruise the East Coast with 6 ft. draft and are only really limited by my concept of half tide ports. These are ports which require half tide or more to leave or enter. This applies, amongst others, to the river Ore, the river Deben, Walton Backwater, Titchmarsh Marina, Bradwell Creek and Marina, Brightlingsea and passages through the Spitway, ax swatchway between the Swin and the Wallet This rule applies springs or neaps as there is little difference between the two for half tide. With 1.5 m. draft you should have no problems.

We find the river Orwell a good place to keep our boat, access unrestricted by the tide, possibility of inshore passages in the Stour & Orwell or short offshore to the Deben or Walton Backwater in rough weather. Also long day international passages to Holland, Belgium or France. Two of the marinas are entered by lock but others have unrestricted entry and many swinging moorings available.

Peter.
 
What sort of price range. A Westerly fulmar would get you far & wide. But you may want something of newer vintage.
But definitely stick with fin. I draw 1.8 with my 31 ft Hanse & even though I am based in Bradwell I rarely find it a problem, But there again, I do not go creek crawling. Once one has been up one muddy creek one has been up them all.
Brightlingsea has never worried us much . It is just a question of sensible timing. One can always drop the hook outside for a while if Anchoring is not an issue (unlike me as it makes me seasick in minutes). You can use the time packing things away & getting lines & fenders ready
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If you can get a berth then Shotley would be a good place to keep a boat. It is a god location to exit in to the wild blue yonder. Lowestoft for an afternoon or Ramsgate for a daysail. Unlike, say Burnham on Crouch, where one can sail for 2 hours just to get out of the river. Same for Ipswich if berths become available in the future. OK the first couple of times but boring after a while. But it depends on your budget & location.
I would hate to have to travel 1.5 hours down the A12 on a Sunday afternoon to get home after a day's sail. Colchester is not too bad though, for the Orwell/Stour
 
Daydream believer said:
What sort of price range. A Westerly fulmar would get you far & wide. But you may want something of newer vintage.
But definitely stick with fin. I draw 1.8 with my 31 ft Hanse & even though I am based in Bradwell I rarely find it a problem, But there again, I do not go creek crawling. Once one has been up one muddy creek one has been up them all.
Brightlingsea has never worried us much . It is just a question of sensible timing. One can always drop the hook outside for a while if Anchoring is not an issue (unlike me as it makes me seasick in minutes). You can use the time packing things away & getting lines & fenders ready
.
If you can get a berth then Shotley would be a good place to keep a boat. It is a god location to exit in to the wild blue yonder. Lowestoft for an afternoon or Ramsgate for a daysail. Unlike, say Burnham on Crouch, where one can sail for 2 hours just to get out of the river. Same for Ipswich if berths become available in the future. OK the first couple of times but boring after a while. But it depends on your budget & location.
I would hate to have to travel 1.5 hours down the A12 on a Sunday afternoon to get home after a day's sail. Colchester is not too bad though, for the Orwell/Stour
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If we are talking regular weekend sailing, the drive to Shotley will soon pall, though the slightly longer way via Manningtree is quieter. It is about half an hour to deeper water from Titchmarsh, so Shotley is quicker, but you have the lock to take into account, so it’s swings and roundabouts. Shotley puts you into Harwich harbour, which is interesting in itself, while Titchmarsh takes you through the Walton Backwaters whose wildness has its own attractions. I suggest the OP drives round these various places and has a good look for himself.
 
Brightlingsea not too bad for 1.8m draft most of the time, although almost unrestricted if have 1m draft. Just need to know where the channel is now - not as wide as when myself or Cobra used to be able to tack in at any state of tide, so have to allow to motor in and follow chart around the curve at lowish tide, but will be met by a harbour person, weekends. There is a channel depths plan on the website under 'Visitors' together with a video on the way in.

10 mins to get out of the harbour and you are quickly in open but sheltered sea with Mersea and Blackwater an easy day sail there and back on the right tide, and Stour/Orwell/Deben/Crouch/Medway a weekend trip. Lots of dinghies and boards to watch.

The few Jet Skis generally stay in a small area off Point Clear so aren't generally a problem and are only there sunny weekends. More gaff dinghies in the week when the jetskis are not there.

What type of sailing would you like to do? - If you would like some racing the Colne Yacht club runs races for your type of boat every weekend, and is a very active club generally.

A good querk of the tide is that it is most often high tide in the afternoon, and when it is low it is a neap which doesn't go out so far, and can be 1.5 hours between successive low tides, hence 1m draft not restricted much, just have to think more now on route in, and 1.8m restricted only on the lowest springs which are at about 6am and 6pm so on those days just need to plan to get back earlier. 1m draft gives more options for exploring the creeks and going to the pubs up river.

Moorings served by a water taxi, or you have a dinghy. Not walk on but much less cost than the Marina which is more restricted tidally.

There is the little town with shops and pubs, very nice toilets with showers and washing machines for mooring holders, and facilities at the 3 clubs, 2 chandleries, marine engineers and 3 boatyards, swimming lido - funfair and live music sometimes - but once out in the river, virtually continuous trees on the horizon - and the crabbing for little ones and the wild life - especially turnstones and egrets. Half hourly bus from North Station (1Hr) if you have friends visiting.

There is also Mersea, I don't know much about Mersea now - (miss Harold Cutts - wanted to sell me a mirror dinghy but dad bought me a gaffer to keep on a mooring) - but may be a good option - there are people on the forum that will let you know what options there are. Tollesbury is too tidal, as is Manningtree.

You could try all the places for a week or two, see which suits you best.

Oh, and you will touch bottom at some time, even within buoyed channels, some have steep sides - so much more convenient with Bilge Keels, ease of scrubbing and standing in the yard in winter, but need one well designed for sailing - British Hunter, Sadler, some Westerlys or similar - depends what you want to do and where you want to go.
 
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Quite a few at Mersea here have 2m draft. There are plenty of deep water moorings BUT at low water springs exiting from the Quarters will delay such craft for a short period. I don't think many are inconvienced by that. Moorings available but you need a dinghy or join the Club for the Club launch. (Oh and an edit: the Club has moorings, and a clubhouse, and a restaurant and a bar and a lawn (which is kinda perfect in the summer!) Plenty of marine engineers, two yards plus winter storage at the Club. No general chandlery but sail makers and a good choice of eateries (inc seafood, fresh fish market) and rinkeries.
 
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In that case, for a fin keeler, with moorings available, I would be seriously considering West Mersea.

Let us know what you decide.

What sort of dinghies do you have at the moment?
 
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As others have suggested it does depend on what sort of sailing you want to do. For beautiful peaceful overnights a shallow draft is a real boon - it is so satisfying sailing through the crowd of boats anchored in Hamford Water and disappearing out of sight up Landermere Creek. Similar pleasures to be had in the other parts of the Backwaters, the upper reaches of the Pyefleet, the Butley River, Iken Cliff and various creeks off the Medway to name but a few. Each is different and oozes its own charm. Not everyone gets it which is great as it keeps it quiet for the rest of us. If your priority is more with covering miles at sea then obviously you will be better served by a deeper keel and the performance and stability that go with it. Depth isn’t much of a problem at Brightlingsea except on low springs or if you are particularly deep. We drew 0.87m with our keel up when we berthed on the White pontoon (the lone pontoon way up the creek beyond the fore-and-aft moorings), and with 1.4m of tide we could get all the way up to and around the pontoon.
 
Thank you everyone for your very helpful (and friendly) replies.

Just to answer a few more queries. I've been dinghy sailing for quite a few years but sold my Laser Vago skiff which was at Alton Reservoir. Asymmetrical spinnaker, trapeze and frequent falling over means I'm looking to stay dry now. I've very occasionally crewed on a Sigma 33 and Halcyon 27. I've done my VHF course, now doing Day Skipper theory.
My sensible boaty friend keeps telling me to look at Sadler 29 and Westerly Konsorts with bilge keels. But I'm drawn to the sleeker lines of the 1990's French-stuff with broad beams and squared off transoms. Moody and Hanse get a look in as well. Maximum budget would be ~£28k, but would be more than happy to spend <£20k on something like a Beneteau First. I'll freely admit that an AWB would do me fine :)
I've lived in Ipswich for 20 years and Colchester for another 10 so I'm pretty familiar with the areas, but not the practicalities of moorings.
I am heartened to hear that a bilge is not deemed an absolute necessary - and I take on board the limits that PeterWright and Egret have helpfully describe. Sounds like I might get away with 1.5m (rather than 1.8m) but that sounds like a decent compromise.

I wonder if this Hanse 331would be such a terrible idea?
 
Perhaps a lifting keel is a good option as balance between sailing performance and shallow draft - then not restricted , can go anywhere - including Manningtree. Would need a check by a surveyor but many of the more modern French boats have lifting keels and most of the older East Coast boats had them. My preference still for Bilge keels for overall convenience and as you say stress free sailing.

Respondents on the blog also have fast dinghies - you can never have too many boats.
 
apguy said:
Thank you everyone for your very helpful (and friendly) replies.

Just to answer a few more queries. I've been dinghy sailing for quite a few years but sold my Laser Vago skiff which was at Alton Reservoir. Asymmetrical spinnaker, trapeze and frequent falling over means I'm looking to stay dry now. I've very occasionally crewed on a Sigma 33 and Halcyon 27. I've done my VHF course, now doing Day Skipper theory.
My sensible boaty friend keeps telling me to look at Sadler 29 and Westerly Konsorts with bilge keels. But I'm drawn to the sleeker lines of the 1990's French-stuff with broad beams and squared off transoms. Moody and Hanse get a look in as well. Maximum budget would be ~£28k, but would be more than happy to spend <£20k on something like a Beneteau First. I'll freely admit that an AWB would do me fine :)
I've lived in Ipswich for 20 years and Colchester for another 10 so I'm pretty familiar with the areas, but not the practicalities of moorings.
I am heartened to hear that a bilge is not deemed an absolute necessary - and I take on board the limits that PeterWright and Egret have helpfully describe. Sounds like I might get away with 1.5m (rather than 1.8m) but that sounds like a decent compromise.

I wonder if this Hanse 331would be such a terrible idea?
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If those photos are recent that looks like a nice boat. Wing keel so the draft is relatively shallow too. The fin keel version has a great reputation (it’s based on the Finngulf 33 which Hanse acquired the design for). You’ll hear theories about wing keels being harder to pull out of the mud when the boat refloats if dried out, but as far as I know they are just that. Am sure you know this, but keep some budget back for improvements and upgrades (or make sure you can afford them) as no boat is perfect and it can cost a surprising amount on top of the purchase price to get them up to your desired spec and condition.
 
We are now equidistant and have considered other places but we still like Brightlingsea as it is 10 minutes to good sailing water and you can either go out to sea or up the rivers as you feel, or weather dictates, and if something goes a bit wrong or wind picks up there is a nice wide estuary to aim for - like a funnel, no worry about negotiating gaps through sand banks or finding the narrow channel past the shipping lanes to get back in, and always someone about to help you if needed. Would need to check mooring availability for a boat more than about 25ft.

Maybe for you though the Hansa at Levington is a good option - you have to try it there first. Read up about the winged keel and see if you can speak to someone who has one.

For Brightlingsea, dinghy park next to the Yacht Club where you can park a small car when out on the water with dinghy is now managed by the Town Council.
 
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apguy said:
Thank you everyone for your very helpful (and friendly) replies.....

I wonder if this Hanse 331would be such a terrible idea?
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Never sailed om the East Coast but FWIW:
Looks a lovely boat. You have probably seen this video of a similar craft but for others who might be interested:


Later Hanse have a certain reputation but that boat looks very well fitted. You might be day sailing now but buying a boat that will still suit you in 5 or 10 years is the way to save money in the long run. That boat has a lot of room to grow into, as well as being a handy club racer.

Also great to see an attractive profile, sugar scoop stern, narrow beam and good ballast ratio. All the sorts of stuff that you will value long term. Cherry on the cake is tiller steering and no teak deck.

.
 
Well I've booked to view that Hanse on Saturday morning. (y)
Broker was honest enough to say that standing rigging is due replacement (for insurance purposes, rather than being shot) and sails are useable but tired. So priced accordingly.
Looks like I could keep that at Brightlingsea as well, which might be my preferred option.
 
apguy said:
Well I've booked to view that Hanse on Saturday morning. (y)
Broker was honest enough to say that standing rigging is due replacement (for insurance purposes, rather than being shot) and sails are useable but tired. So priced accordingly.
Looks like I could keep that at Brightlingsea as well, which might be my preferred option.
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I also really like Brightlingsea. We often visit from the Kent side of the estuary, and it’s a really well run harbour. One thing to consider is power. If you’re on the mid river pontoons, there’s no electricity out there, so you will likely need to invest in plenty of solar if (like me) you sometimes stay on the boat without actually going anywhere (e.g. work from boat, or doing boat jobs), and like to have a fridge, lights etc running.
 
apguy said:
Well I've booked to view that Hanse on Saturday morning. (y)
Broker was honest enough to say that standing rigging is due replacement (for insurance purposes, rather than being shot) and sails are useable but tired. So priced accordingly.
Looks like I could keep that at Brightlingsea as well, which might be my preferred option.
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Unless there is something major you need to grab it. One of my friends bought a 2003 -311 in Bradwell for £45k last October & a friend of mine bought a 2003- 34 for £60K late last year & has already blown another £35K+ on it- Rigging, sails electronics, delivery, bowsprit, prop, rope cutter, etc. But he wanted to make it look like new. It does now.
I sail my 311 SH 95% of the time & my friend who bought the other 311 sailed it to Chichester & could not believe how well it sailed, even though her last boat was a first 29.5 & a Benny 40 before that.
 
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