Masthead light - steaming or anchor (or both)?

[lw395]

I did consider those ... but I must admit my question was a loaded one - I hate Tricolours !!

I have a strong dislike of deck/pulpit level lights that only light up the sails, nearby waves, stupid ensign on a stick or whatever.
Particularly when they throw enough light back into the cockpit to affect night vision.
Tricolour is also great for illuminating the windex.

 

[Daydream believer]

Is it a tri with an all round built in (anchor light). Tri for sailing, all round white and bow lights for motoring?

Ask Ben Murphy #33 - it's his boat

 

[Daydream believer]

Why do you think I would argue with that ? I can relate circumstances where I have done same as Bridge Watch Officer. As to Dover Straits ? The sort of ships I was on - that would not be an option .. with over 70ft draft, 1300ft long, 300,000 tons - sorry mate.

My one liner was in response to your 'Dodgy with shipping about at night' comment.

As I commented earlier - as a BWO - I much preferred to see a bright light than some intermittent twinkling bit of red / green ... that makes it difficult to determine action.

It is just that I got the impression that you were suggesting that yachts should change course " willy nilly" due to their manouverability without considering the consequences of their actions. A ship may have already changed course. I had a ship call me up when it was out of sight, several miles away to confirm my course & to tell me to carry on as he was going to change course. If I had changed course when I had seen him it may have caused confusion.

I was commenting on the forumite displaying incorrect lights.By displaying the wrong lights one cannot use the excuse " well I can get out of the way easily enough because I am manouverable"

In your situation there is no reason not to call me up & advise me of the problem - You should be carrying the correct signals for "constrained by draft".
I have been called up by a ship pre ais days by a ship with 22M draft to advise of a course change due to draft restriction in the DS . No problem with that. Then I can make an agreed change. Not one that may cause confusion. Surely you would prefer that, Would you not?

 

[NormanS]

I have a strong dislike of deck/pulpit level lights that only light up the sails, nearby waves, stupid ensign on a stick or whatever.
Particularly when they throw enough light back into the cockpit to affect night vision.
Tricolour is also great for illuminating the windex.

By the time my nav lights are switched on, my "stupid ensign on a stick" has been taken down. ?

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Ask Ben Murphy #33 - it's his boat

It was more of an rhetorical question, more an answer to yours. Speculation on how you could comply with colregs without a pushpit stern light.

But you know that.

 

[Refueler]

It is just that I got the impression that you were suggesting that yachts should change course " willy nilly" due to their manouverability without considering the consequences of their actions. A ship may have already changed course. I had a ship call me up when it was out of sight, several miles away to confirm my course & to tell me to carry on as he was going to change course. If I had changed course when I had seen him it may have caused confusion.

I was commenting on the forumite displaying incorrect lights.By displaying the wrong lights one cannot use the excuse " well I can get out of the way easily enough because I am manouverable"

In your situation there is no reason not to call me up & advise me of the problem - You should be carrying the correct signals for "constrained by draft".
I have been called up by a ship pre ais days by a ship with 22M draft to advise of a course change due to draft restriction in the DS . No problem with that. Then I can make an agreed change. Not one that may cause confusion. Surely you would prefer that, Would you not?

I am not arguing with you.

All I will say is yes - Deep Draft signal is obviously hoisted in such waters.

I am just putting my mind back to making the dog leg in Dover Straits and while worryng about staying in deep water - we always reckoned ships like ours dredged the Straits ... for years we used to lighten off cargo to reduce draft for Dover Straits ... thinking that I'm going to call up yachts that are crossing a shipping lane where rules state I have right of way and should not be impeded !!
Sorry DB .. I don't doubt your post, content and sincerity ... but taking a 300,000 tonner through Dover Straits - last thing on my mind is VHF calls to a yacht !!

I can even recite the tale of ST Linga ... fully loaded 320,000 ton ... I got called by a yacht in channel demanding I change course because he was racing !! Seriously you don't have time for such crap ... UK CG in fact called him up and told him to get out of the way !! OK I got told to curb my language ...

 

[sarabande]

I have a sailing friend who is moving towards putting big LEDs in his cabin based P and St lights. His view is that the increased backscatter (dazzle from water particles) for the helmsperson is more than countered by the greatly increased range of visibility (much more than the statutory 2 miles minimum.)

Given Refueler's preference for seeing any big light on an approaching sailing vessel, would it be worth exploiting modern technology and putting a really gert big LED onto the masthead lights - possibly as a form of steamer scarer, and perhaps switchable from Normal to High if the conditions demand ? Backscatter from a masthead light is much less than from a bow or cabin mounted light bcs of the plane of emission at eye level..

 

[RupertW]

I have a strong dislike of deck/pulpit level lights that only light up the sails, nearby waves, stupid ensign on a stick or whatever.
Particularly when they throw enough light back into the cockpit to affect night vision.
Tricolour is also great for illuminating the windex.

And sailing is so much more beautiful at night with eyes adjusted to deck level darkness. I even put the cover over the compass as that reflects off the wheel.

 

[Daydream believer]

I am just putting my mind back to making the dog leg in Dover Straits and while worryng about staying in deep water - we always reckoned ships like ours dredged the Straits ... for years we used to lighten off cargo to reduce draft for Dover Straits ... thinking that I'm going to call up yachts that are crossing a shipping lane where rules state I have right of way and should not be impeded !!
Sorry DB .. I don't doubt your post, content and sincerity ... but taking a 300,000 tonner through Dover Straits - last thing on my mind is VHF calls to a yacht

I am fully aware that authorities prefer shipping not to contact each other by VHF on the grounds that the colregs work & VHF has been known to cause confusio. But I do have a question.
So if you have not got time to notify vessels crossing your path, how do you expect them to know that you intend to change course when one expect the stand on vessel to hold its course? One would not normally expect me to study the sea bed and know that you were following the shipping lane but still going to zig zag within it. In spite of displayed signals- would one

 

[Refueler]

I have a sailing friend who is moving towards putting big LEDs in his cabin based P and St lights. His view is that the increased backscatter (dazzle from water particles) for the helmsperson is more than countered by the greatly increased range of visibility (much more than the statutory 2 miles minimum.)

Given Refueler's preference for seeing any big light on an approaching sailing vessel, would it be worth exploiting modern technology and putting a really gert big LED onto the masthead lights - possibly as a form of steamer scarer, and perhaps switchable from Normal to High if the conditions demand ? Backscatter from a masthead light is much less than from a bow or cabin mounted light bcs of the plane of emission at eye level..

Please do not misunderstand me.

My comment about the big light is based on often - the yachts lights are dipping behind waves ... weak in power due to the lens colour ... various factors. I have met many yachts at sea and the most significant factor on lights has been a white light up the mast ...
At sea if that's seen ... the OOW really wants to know what the hell it is ... and he will keep clear of it. Simple.
Todays vessels also unlike various ships I sailed in 1970's ... 1980's ... have radar on 100% of the time - so as long as you have a reflector hoisted - you have a good chance that with the bearing of that light and the radar - keeps you safe.

Little note about radar and yachts ... I was crossing Baltic in my 25ft yacht back to Ventspils ... I had a difference of opinion with a small container ship .... he was assessed as going to hit my port bow ... I'm heading east - he's heading south ... deep water .. so he should go astern of me .. I stood on watching and assessing till .........
I decided to not be a hero and did a wide 360 to let him pass ... as he passed - I called him on VHF and asked if he saw me ... Oh Yes he replied - I've plotted you on radar for over 2 miles ... I was going to pass about 1 - 2 cables ahead of you ...

This bas***d was doing about 15kts with a bow wave that ended up throwing me all over beam ends.

I asked him if that was his normal tactic .. to which he basically said - whats problem ? My reply basically went along the lines of having spent 17 yrs on the bridge of ships - I would never have done what you just did .. the last bit I shall leave you to imagine.

BUT what was interesting ... at that time I had no reflector up - but sails yes. He reckoned my radar echo was quite strong. Seas were maybe F4 ... waves about 1m max on swell.

 

[Refueler]

I am fully aware that authorities prefer shipping not to contact each other by VHF on the grounds that the colregs work & VHF has been known to cause confusio. But I do have a question.
So if you have not got time to notify vessels crossing your path, how do you expect them to know that you intend to change course when one expect the stand on vessel to hold its course? One would not normally expect me to study the sea bed and know that you were following the shipping lane but still going to zig zag within it. In spite of displayed signals- would one

Sorry DB ... but have a bit of common sense. You introduced Dover Straits and VHF calls etc.
Second - it is obvious now that you are just creating posts to push a point.

Where is a 300,000 ton tanker going to go when in Dover Straits ? What courses is he going to keep ? He's going to be following the shipping lane as he has no choice ....

If you want to be a hero there ... I wish you luck. Even the Ferries don't push their luck there !

And whats this crap - zig zag within it ? Have you looked at the chart of Dover Straits ? Its been years since I navigated it ... but even I remember the dog-leg in the shipping lanes ... first to port .. then to stbd ... if on way to North Sea ...

 

[RJJ]

Crossing Dover straits I (under sail) encountered a 250,000 ton container ship this March. With 5 miles to go, I radioed him to confirm I was changing course to take his stern. He said he had just started altering course to go astern of me and would I please hold my course. Which I did.

 

[Refueler]

Sorry everyone - I can see this becoming a ship vs yacht argument that really is going nowhere.

 

[Refueler]

Crossing Dover straits I (under sail) encountered a 250,000 ton container ship this March. With 5 miles to go, I radioed him to confirm I was changing course to take his stern. He said he had just started altering course to go astern of me and would I please hold my course. Which I did.

There is no such ship as a 250.000 ton Container ship ... not even close. Second : his draft is far less than most tankers of even moderate size. Third : his speed and manoeuvrability is far better than any medium to large tanker.
He can do it. Plus its an angle matter ... if he has you plotted early enough - he can alter only a slight amount and clear you. If he leaves it late - its a large alteration and then it becomes more difficult.

But Sorry - not valid.... no such ship !! Large yes ... but far less than tonnage than you assumed.

 

[awol]

There is no such ship as a 250.000 ton Container ship ... not even close.

Madrid Maersk comes in at 214,286 gross tonnage. Is that close enough?

 

[john_morris_uk]

The average yacht when only under sail is far more agile than any ship and in most cases - the yacht is actually the give way unless in deep / non traffic zone areas ... (couldn't be bothered to write out ColRegs text !).

With respect, what utter tosh.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I have been in lots of situations where ships have altered course for me. & rightly so.
I have had shipping change course in the Dover straits regularly & this year alone ( presumably because I have AIS) ships have called me up in the shipping lanes & asked me to maintain my course because they are altering course for me. Same in the lane just off Ostend last year when a ship told me that he was turning one way rather than the other as another ship was nearby.
I find that shipping is often more than happy to move over unless altering course would mean compromising their position. In fact I have been asked to hold my course to avoid confusion.
Just because a yacht is agile does not mean it should start changing course at will

Quite!

 

[Refueler]

With respect, what utter tosh.

Rewriting the Rules are you ? Go read about Restricted waters and Traffic sep schemes etc.

Looks like we have another Hero's Headstone coming up ......

As I said - here we go ... Ships vs Yacht crap again ...

 

[Daydream believer]

When one talks about large ships doing various passages I was under the impression that the larger ones avoided the Dover Strait & went round the North of the UK. is that correct?
I also understood that whilst the port of Tilbury claimed it could take such large ships it was often the case that they had discharged part of their cargo in Rotterdam first.
So the ship going through the DS may have large capacity it may not actually be full

 

[JumbleDuck]

I’m aware of the COLREGs, but I’m wondering if there’s flexibility in practise (the same way, for example, that no one ever really uses a steaming cone shape).

Yes. In practice, almost all anchoring lights are at the masthead. If this causes any problems - presumably among people with remarkably narrow fields of vision and remarkably inflexible necks - they are not reported. I use a hurricane lamp at the cross trees myself but have never had any difficulty spotting a masthead light.