Masthead light - steaming or anchor (or both)?

I have seen ships approach at nearly 20 knots ( not counting ferries etc) but as you point out normally 12-15 knts in the Dover straits. But there have been a few. I have also seen a lot doing only 8 kts. that leaves a lot of situations where overtaking takes place . i expect that also leads to a bit of zig zagging --Unless you are disleptic-- in which you might zag zig. :confused:
However, the subject has been done to death so i will pull out & wish you well
 
Refueler said:
Ok .. lets look at this speed bit through such as Dover Straits ... and your info of 8kts and 13kts.

Just a bit of expl :

Full Away Sea speed : usually means wind her up chaps ... to max recc'd ... not best in congested waters if you need to manoeuvre
Full Ahead / Astern: Usually about 70 - 75% of full sea speed ... more controlled, engineers manning ER
Then we have Half Ahead / Astern ... Slow .. Dead Slow etc.

In the old days we also had on Steamers ... Double Ring Astern - because steamers usually gave about 60% astern at Full unless emergency ... the Double Ring.... then all hell broke loose down there as engineers wound open all the steam valves !!

(I have to relay this .. may give you a smile ... Motor ships use air start and each start uses substantial amounts of air ... so you often have two or more compressors running to top up between starts. The engines have no gearbox - so ahead is one way ... astern is other ...
It is not unknown in manoeuvres when Pilot / Master get a bit carried away with stop starts for ER to telephone bridge and complain ... the common phrase used being "You have two more f***** orders left and ones f***** stop !"

OK ... Small commercial craft like coasters etc. are usually quite slow with maybe up to about 10kts full away... with about 8kts at Full Ahead
Larger vessels except Reefers, Container and some Passenger vessels quicker with design speeds of around the 14kts mark... with Full Ahead about the 12kts.
Going slower than about 10kts on larger vessels starts to get uneconomic.
Reefers and Container vessels have tight schedules as Liner trade to keep and often 'push' the limits of speed ... as did the Gas ships I was on for a while ... 21kts was required to make run ...

So its not just a matter of seeing speed on AIS ... etc. - its worth delving further and checking out size and type of vessel. Vessels of similar type and size will usually go through such as Dover Straits at similar speed to avoid problems and also because they are on Standby status at Full Ahead ... not Full away ... about 12kts ... remember AIS takes speed from the GPS ... so its more than possible for 13kts to be shown. Of course there are going to be Schumachers of the world ... but generally luckily they are few and far between.
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On my last larg(ish) ship SOP was a case of champagne from the OOW to the MCR if full astern was ordered. (You were suppose to be sufficient ahead of the game to never order 'full astern...") The champagne was only for engineers actually in the MCR when full astern was achieved. If the ship started rumbling as if building up to full astern, you could see engineers sprinting to the MCR...
 
john_morris_uk said:
On my last larg(ish) ship SOP was a case of champagne from the OOW to the MCR if full astern was ordered. (You were suppose to be sufficient ahead of the game to never order 'full astern...") The champagne was only for engineers actually in the MCR when full astern was achieved. If the ship started rumbling as if building up to full astern, you could see engineers sprinting to the MCR...
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Motorships as you know are different to steamers ... motorships give 100% astern at full unlike steamers which only give about 60% ... why the Double Ring astern came about to try and get more.

Hated motorships ... beer always vibrated of the bar ... yes we had bars on board in my day ! Steamers were quiet ... less vibration - except funny enough Belfast and Kiel built steam VLCC's with Shell ... bl***y awful shakers at full sea speed.
 
john_morris_uk said:
On my last larg(ish) ship SOP was a case of champagne from the OOW to the MCR if full astern was ordered. (You were suppose to be sufficient ahead of the game to never order 'full astern...") The champagne was only for engineers actually in the MCR when full astern was achieved. If the ship started rumbling as if building up to full astern, you could see engineers sprinting to the MCR...
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This one? Brazil says it has bagged Royal Navy flagship HMS Ocean for £84m
 
Interesting article on Ocean ... always thought it a good concept vessel ..

The bit about 65m spent on refit ... lot of money - but they need to be operational till last day which means money.

Reminds me of HMS Eagle. I can remember seeing her moored in Plymouth while I was at Maritime College.... stripped ... she'd had a full refit not long before de-commissioning. Same story ... operational till last day.
 
Refueler said:
Interesting article on Ocean ... always thought it a good concept vessel ..

The bit about 65m spent on refit ... lot of money - but they need to be operational till last day which means money.

Reminds me of HMS Eagle. I can remember seeing her moored in Plymouth while I was at Maritime College.... stripped ... she'd had a full refit not long before de-commissioning. Same story ... operational till last day.
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OCEAN gave great service at an amazingly low cost compared to many warships. She was always considered good value for money. And don't believe the simple headline figures of the papers on refit and selling costs etc.. Ships are often sold with a maintenance contract for spares that is a nice little earner for years to come. Furthermore, if you read the article, it explains that OCERAN was also undergoing a refit before being sold. I don't expect that the UK is paying all the bill for that either.
 
john_morris_uk said:
Don't believe the headline figures. Ships are often sold with a maintenance contract for spares that is a nice little earner for years to come. If you read the article, it explains that OCERAN is also undergoing a refit before being sold. I don't expect that the UK is paying all the bill for this.
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Fully realised that ... my comment was regarding the media emphasis on the 65m spent on refit before de-commissioning. They report it like wasted money .....
 
john_morris_uk said:
OCEAN gave great service at an amazingly low cost compared to many warships. She was always considered good value for money. And don't believe the simple headline figures of the papers on refit and selling costs etc.. Ships are often sold with a maintenance contract for spares that is a nice little earner for years to come. Furthermore, if you read the article, it explains that OCERAN was also undergoing a refit before being sold. I don't expect that the UK is paying all the bill for that either.
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I know I'm not a military person ... so its purely as a layman ... but I think UK Navy needs more multi-purpose type ships like that instead of Flagship Carriers. Yes we can trumpet to the World we have a carrier ... but as USA have found out with her goliaths - the defence and support is huge to cover such vessel ...
Wars now tend to be smaller - more targeted and infiltration / insertion is more needed than a symbolic show of force.
When I left shipping and went ashore - I ended up in Saudi Arabia ... which led to my working deep with Coalition Forces on Fuel Supplies (Gulf War 1) ... I was appointed by SABIC (Saudi Govt) to oversee supplies along with US Strategic Fuel Division and the Brit equivalent.
The marriage of Brit specialities and US brute force was observed close up. Leads me to such opinion.
 
PaulRainbow said:
I posted a picture of a muppet blowing his own trumpet, why did you think it was meant for you ?
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The significance of it being a Muppet blowing its own trumpet was lost on me .

I'm such a Muppet.

Anyway a virtual pint to whoever can remember what this thread was originally about without looking...

_____________________
 
My 16’ Wayfarer has separate red and green sidelights, stern light, and a steaming light on the forward side of the mast. Motoring with the outboard through a narrow channel on a Canadian lake that seldom sees sailing vessels, I was surprised to see the usually-careless oncoming motor boats slow down and give us a wide berth; clearly they thought something big was coming at them!
On the topic of visibility of lights on the mast of a yacht, does anyone ever see the optional red-over-green lights allowed for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”? That could be another senseless project for the Wayfarer :)
 
MADRIGAL said:
My 16’ Wayfarer has separate red and green sidelights, stern light, and a steaming light on the forward side of the mast. Motoring with the outboard through a narrow channel on a Canadian lake that seldom sees sailing vessels, I was surprised to see the usually-careless oncoming motor boats slow down and give us a wide berth; clearly they thought something big was coming at them!
On the topic of visibility of lights on the mast of a yacht, does anyone ever see the optional red-over-green lights allowed for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”? That could be another senseless project for the Wayfarer :)
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I’ve only ever seen the alternative lights for a sailing vessel once. It was on a traditional sailing vessel lIRC and as far as I could make out as we passed.
 
BenMurphy said:
This makes sense as my Hunter Horizon doesn't appear to ever have had a stern light fitted - so it would suggest that the previous owner has always sailed with the bow bi-light navs and the masthead all-rounder.
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Having built a couple of Hunter kits I can confirm that your set up is exactly as Hunter’s intended. Saves some cost (& power) but has some advantages / disadvantages as other have mentioned.

fwiw my new boat has an all round white at the masthead, plus a steaming light, and bow and stern lights. I’m changing the all round white for a tricolour for when offshore as I prefer the anchor light lower down, dangling above the foredeck as this is where people will be looking when entering a crowded anchorage
 
MADRIGAL said:
My 16’ Wayfarer has separate red and green sidelights, stern light, and a steaming light on the forward side of the mast. Motoring with the outboard through a narrow channel on a Canadian lake that seldom sees sailing vessels, I was surprised to see the usually-careless oncoming motor boats slow down and give us a wide berth; clearly they thought something big was coming at them!
On the topic of visibility of lights on the mast of a yacht, does anyone ever see the optional red-over-green lights allowed for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”? That could be another senseless project for the Wayfarer :)
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I think if most people saw the r+g - they'd ask what the f is that !! Its in the rules - but so unused ....
 
As regards anchor lights .... I have always liked the oil lamp hanging from a line above foredeck ... has a distinct light and effect ...

But of course convenience and all that ... we have what is common today.

Because Baltics is high latitude and nights get very short in summer ... a number of boats I've noted at anchor have had solar powered lights hoisted forward ... they work .. of course you have to make sure you get a decent power one - not just the decorative small ones from the garden. I don't think in UK it would work well though - because the night darkness duration is greater than many of the lights can sustain.
 
MADRIGAL said:
On the topic of visibility of lights on the mast of a yacht, does anyone ever see the optional red-over-green lights allowed for sailing vessels “at or near the top of the mast”? That could be another senseless project for the Wayfarer :)
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Red over green - sailing machine!
- I know, not really a helpful way to remember as "sailing" could be changed to just about anything.

I remember seeing the layout & thinking how good it would be for visibility
The two lights high up for distance, together with the lower level lights for closer viewing.

Very rarely used as Refueler says.
Probably because the the requirement of having at least a metre of separation between the two top lights.
Adds a lot of height to a mast, unless you have a 50 foot+ boat.
 
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