Masthead light - steaming or anchor (or both)?

[Refueler]

Ok thanks - to clarify then I have an all-rounder light atop my mast.

I’m aware of the COLREGs, but I’m wondering if there’s flexibility in practise (the same way, for example, that no one ever really uses a steaming cone shape).

Interestingly the RYA website itself offers this advice about anchoring:

“An all-round light at the top of the mast may conveniently double as a masthead (steaming) light and stern light on “power-driven” vessels of less than 12m in length.“

Beat me to it ...

The important point there is that the light mimics the steaming light and stern light in one ..... similar to the tricolour that has port stbd and stern light in one.

Technically of course its not as per ColRegs .... but in practical terms when motoring (sail or not) - as long as your port / stbd lights are correctly shown and lower down - there should be no confusion.

I also submit this as a purely personal PoV as an ex Bridge Watch Officer of ships .... yacht lights are a joke. I'd rather see a white light at masthead ABOVE the waves - than other nav lights dipping and rising in the wave / swell ... (tricolours - I have a pet dislike of because they are not as visible as some think). Not only that - but I am always surprised at the number of boats with side lights that once that genny is hoisted are obscured !!
I need to know you are there ...

 

[lw395]

Beat me to it ...

The important point there is that the light mimics the steaming light and stern light in one ..... similar to the tricolour that has port stbd and stern light in one.

Technically of course its not as per ColRegs .... but in practical terms when motoring (sail or not) - as long as your port / stbd lights are correctly shown and lower down - there should be no confusion.
...

(d)

(i) A power-driven vessel of less that 12 metres in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;

So it's fine for small boats.

 

[Refueler]

(d)

So it's fine for small boats.

12m and less Power driven vessels only. Not everyone has a Gin Palace !

To have same applied to ALL vessels you have to go much smaller in size .....

 

[chrishscorp]

12m and less Power driven vessels only. Not everyone has a Gin Palace !

To have same applied to ALL vessels you have to go much smaller in size .....

A Yacht using its engine is a power driven vessel, if you are using sails alone you wouldnt need a steaming light would you ?

 

[Refueler]

A Yacht using its engine is a power driven vessel, if you are using sails alone you wouldnt need a steaming light would you ?

Well aware of that ... just rubbing salt !

My mention of the much smaller is when a sail only boat can also show an all round white

 

[VicS]

This makes sense as my Hunter Horizon doesn't appear to ever have had a stern light fitted - so it would suggest that the previous owner has always sailed with the bow bi-light navs and the masthead all-rounder.

You might find this diagram helpful It shows the legal combinations of lights for vessels under 12m


The all-round white can double as the anchor light
Vessels under 7m LOA and with a top speed of less than 7 knots may exhibit just an all round white

Also this one ( not mine) ... note the word "Either" in the second diagram


See the Colregs for details of visible ranges and arcs of visibility

,

 

[Refueler]

Vic ... that's a point that often gets ignored ... the EITHER ...

How many yachties do you see gaily tramping along with Tricolour AND normal lights on .. I can remember loads of them when I was Solent based.

Why someone would fit both sets ??

TBH - I still dislike tricolour lights ....

 

[lw395]

...

Why someone would fit both sets ??

..

a) because it's often required for racing boats.
b) because it takes the drama out of a bulb failure
c) because it allows you to choose what might best be seen in the circumstances

 

[Daydream believer]

This makes sense as my Hunter Horizon doesn't appear to ever have had a stern light fitted - so it would suggest that the previous owner has always sailed with the bow bi-light navs and the masthead all-rounder.

So what do you display when sailing as opposed to motoring?

 

[Refueler]

a) because it's often required for racing boats.
b) because it takes the drama out of a bulb failure
c) because it allows you to choose what might best be seen in the circumstances

I did consider those ... but I must admit my question was a loaded one - I hate Tricolours !!

 

[Refueler]

So what do you display when sailing as opposed to motoring?

Bow lights and switch on cabin lights .. leave hatchway open !!

 

[NPMR]

Our Jeanneau S.O. 33i has one all round white light at the top of the mast and red/green on the front of the mast. This is as it left the factory a few years ago.

Down below, the "anchor light switch" activates the all round white. When motoring, the switch is moved to "steaming" but now, the red/green on the mast comes on. In the middle, it's all OFF.

(It does also have a tricolour light at masthead, but that's not the subject of this discussion)

I wired my previous boat exactly as this. Both boats being under 12m, my reading of the regulations say this is perfectly legal and correct. And arguably, desirable as well (re visibility etc)

 

[BenMurphy]

So what do you display when sailing as opposed to motoring?

Well that's the million dollar question. I suspect the previous owner sailed under the nav and the all-round light anyway. I guess you could get away with that if you accept that other vessels are going to treat you as a vessel under motor and interpret the collision regulations in that context??

 

[Daydream believer]

Why someone would fit both sets ??

Because tricolour would be expected to use less power; but does not comply with colregs when motoring. However,in that situation power to the lights is less of a consideration as it is being generated by the engine rather than from battery storage
Lights at lower level may also be better in close quarter situations, whilst those in tricolour units may be better offshore at range.
But in the end- to each his own

 

[Daydream believer]

Well that's the million dollar question. I suspect the previous owner sailed under the nav and the all-round light anyway. I guess you could get away with that if you accept that other vessels are going to treat you as a vessel under motor and interpret the collision regulations in that context??

Dodgy with shipping about at night
It puts you in a dilema as well as the ship. You may act as a give way vessel when in fact you are not & have to make decisions on what you think the other vessel might be doing having seen your lights . In light winds you may not have the ability to give way that easily & with the correct lights would not always have to !! But showing motoring lights you may have prejudiced your situation

 

[Refueler]

Dodgy with shipping about at night

The average yacht when only under sail is far more agile than any ship and in most cases - the yacht is actually the give way unless in deep / non traffic zone areas ... (couldn't be bothered to write out ColRegs text !).

 

[Jonmendez]

“BenMurphy said:
This makes sense as my Hunter Horizon doesn't appear to ever have had a stern light fitted - so it would suggest that the previous owner has always sailed with the bow bi-light navs and the masthead all-rounder”

Ah but this from the bow aspect will make you appear to be a motor boat or a sailing boat motor sailing rather than a sailing boat actually sailing, To be a sailing boat under 20m you need aspect lights - port and starboard and a stern light, so a bit or rewiring is needed.

 

[Daydream believer]

The average yacht when only under sail is far more agile than any ship and in most cases - the yacht is actually the give way unless in deep / non traffic zone areas ... (couldn't be bothered to write out ColRegs text !).

I have been in lots of situations where ships have altered course for me. & rightly so.
I have had shipping change course in the Dover straits regularly & this year alone ( presumably because I have AIS) ships have called me up in the shipping lanes & asked me to maintain my course because they are altering course for me. Same in the lane just off Ostend last year when a ship told me that he was turning one way rather than the other as another ship was nearby.
I find that shipping is often more than happy to move over unless altering course would mean compromising their position. In fact I have been asked to hold my course to avoid confusion.
Just because a yacht is agile does not mean it should start changing course at will

 

[Refueler]

I have been in lots of situations where ships have altered course for me. & rightly so.
I have had shipping change course in the Dover straits regularly & this year alone ( presumably because I have AIS) ships have called me up in the shipping lanes & asked me to maintain my course because they are altering course for me. Same in the lane just off Ostend last year when a ship told me that he was turning one way rather than the other as another ship was nearby.
I find that shipping is often more than happy to move over unless altering course would mean compromising their position. In fact I have been asked to hold my course to avoid confusion.
Just because a yacht is agile does not mean it should start changing course at will

Why do you think I would argue with that ? I can relate circumstances where I have done same as Bridge Watch Officer. As to Dover Straits ? The sort of ships I was on - that would not be an option .. with over 70ft draft, 1300ft long, 300,000 tons - sorry mate.

My one liner was in response to your 'Dodgy with shipping about at night' comment.

As I commented earlier - as a BWO - I much preferred to see a bright light than some intermittent twinkling bit of red / green ... that makes it difficult to determine action.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

So what do you display when sailing as opposed to motoring?

Is it a tri with an all round built in (anchor light). Tri for sailing, all round white and bow lights for motoring?