Masthead anchor light colreg is meaningless for yachts

Stobe lights either blue or white would work well, in addition to your 'issue' anchor light. They only draw about 200 milli-amps so no drain as such and are very easy to see. Why not??

As for CLOREGS, 'where it can best be seen' is the bit to take notice of, many large boats have a double set of all round lights (useually offset) so they can be seen all round. Not at the mast head either!
 
Pride of Bilbao was doing 22 kts in the dark. Thought they saw a light. Not sure but carried on anyway. Their radar should have picked up all boats in front of them. If not they should not have been doing that speed. Did they check by radar that the light of the boat they saw visually was still there after they passed?

If you were moving through an anchorage in the dark would you not use your radar?

I also agree with the use of strobe lights. I think that providing they are not confusing with the colreg lights you can use them. So a strobe at boom level and a masthead light when at anchor seems a good , safe set up.
 
Had an RNLI sea safe inspection on my old boat and they suggested a light down around cockpit level, especially if you were anchored in a busy spot. They weren't aa fan of the high up one.
 
I think you are mixing two distinct issues. The first concerns the risks associated with suddenly having to get under way when you had settled comfortably at anchor, without warning, perhaps in bad weather, viz, night, and conflicting traffic and other boats anchored nearby. The second concerns the location of anchor lights.

Personally I find masthead lights far easier to see from around 5 boat lengths and more, and I don't really get much closer than that under those conditions - in any case I have a radar repeater by the helm and a powerful searchlight. Lights up high don't get confused with city lights and I have never yet mistaken an anchor light for a star. If you are arguing that you cannot easily see a masthead anchor light, don't you feel uncomfortable that you wouldn't see a tricolour, either? Maybe you need to extend your visual scan and look up a bit more?

It seems to me that your problem was really caused by not being in a fit condition to get under way when you did. That's perhaps not so much a criticism but an observation. You might have been incapacitated through drink, changing your engine oil, or any one of many other problems. You could be called upon to get under way at any time when at anchor if your anchor fails - which need not be caused by a third party, it could just drag. Anchors do drag.

Most sailing yachts are factory-fitted with masthead lights so to expect any change in, say, the next decade is fanciful. Surely you need to re-visit the design of your bimini, when at anchor and make use of the radar and torch an automatic reaction to being called upon to get under way in bad viz or at night? That seems to be a pretty high priority if you spend a lot of time at anchor.

When there is a blow it is common to find half a dozen or more boats swanning around the anchorage with anchors at the ready, so collision avoidance is vital. They should have their nav lights on, though, unless they forgot in their haste and are motoring round with the anchor light on? It does happen - I did it myself once and I have seen it several times.

From your post you sound angry that people put anchor lights at the masthead. The do, and have done so for a very long time, and continue to do so. If you had hit another vessel lit by a masthead light, I don't think you'd have had a leg to stand on, either legally or morally.
 
I always thought colregs specified a 2 mile light displayed in the foretryangle or at least foward of the mast. Traditionally this was a hurricain lamp hung on the cutter stay but the modern electric version is both brighter and more reliable. There is no need to use low efficiency bulbs as there are a veriaty of good lights available for the job which, with the addition of a daylight sensor reduce consumption to a few amp hours. If that is two much go back to the iol light!! The only reason the masthead all round wt is used is because its there and requires no effort, it is neither very effective nor legal. Having said all though what Lady Jessie describes is I am afraid both poor seamanship and definatly a breach of colregs. To attempt to navigate a crowded anchorage at night with you view obscured by canvas such that you are unable to keep an effective lookout and without either radar, a bright spotlight or a night scope is neither sensible or legal. I appreciate this was an emergency caused by others but maybe it would be better to remind people to always be ready to put to sea in an emergency or at least bed the boat down ready to manover.
 
Not quite right, Roly. Colregs, for vessels under 50m, just specify an all round white light visible from at least 2nm. Mast head lights meet that requirement and are legal, even though they have shortcomings at close quarters when there is no ambient light. It therefore does make sense in busier anchorages full of small craft in dark places to have a lower level light - in addition to a mast head if you wish.

With respect to the seamanship issue, at anchor my bimini is always stowed at dusk, and decks cleared ready for going to sea, dinghy on board. As others have said, winds change, and even if you don't drag your anchor, others may drag onto you. It pays to be ready to manouevre without hindrance.
 
A strobe at anchor would be extremely annoying for your fellow anchorage users!
Anchored by necessity in a dangerous location I would put on all white lights including a strobe but in a recognised anchorage I'd expect the warm glow of incandescent lights in cockpit or the fore triangle to be illuminating my fellow cruisers.
 
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Personally I find masthead lights far easier to see from around 5 boat lengths and more, and I don't really get much closer than that under those conditions - in any case I have a radar repeater by the helm and a powerful searchlight. Lights up high don't get confused with city lights and I have never yet mistaken an anchor light for a star. If you are arguing that you cannot easily see a masthead anchor light, don't you feel uncomfortable that you wouldn't see a tricolour, either? Maybe you need to extend your visual scan and look up a bit more?

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Unlike you I am no fan of masthead anchor lights in crowded anchorages, nor am I a fan of tricolour lights in potentially close quarter situations for the same reason, that distance perception is difficult. A lower mounted anchor light that illuminates the deck and coachroof is far more easily seen IMO and it's distance away judged.

Having radar at the helm might seem useful but on the extreme short range needed in a crowded anchorage the clutter and target separation would need far more concentration IMO than the person at the helm could cope with, even in the unlikely event that the set's controls were correctly adjusted for that situation. The use of torches and especially high powered searchlights (and we do carry a 1.5million candlepower one) will destroy night vision totally in an instant, after which you will not see anything whatsoever without using the light and you now have the ultimate in tunnel vision. I frequently see people (usually inexperienced charter crews) that will use powerful lights in situations where there is plenty of residual light and then they then have little option but to continue doing so because night vision has vanished.

We do put our bimini away at night although we can use it underway, mainly as a precaution against unexpected strong winds or needing to move in a hurry and it is easier without it. Our anchor light too usually is hung on a line between the stern gantry (where the bimini stows) and the sprayhood grab bar from where it lights the cockpit as well as the white coachroof deck nicely and approaching boats can see us easily.
 
Remember that most people see their anchor lights from their dinghies coming back from the shore. They look entirely different when seen from a deck level of 2m approaching from seaward, against a background of shore lights. In very rural anchorages, that's different and I think then a lower light is marginally better - especially the cheap blue-ish LEDs that stand out from almost everything else.

What surprises me is that my wife and I have no problem at all seeing masthead anchor lights and we never find them hard to pick out from the stars (totally different colour and brightness), yet the lower ones are often very hard to see.

Hurricane lamps can be impossible to see against shore sodium lights.

Why can we see masthead lights with absolutely no trouble, and even prefer them, when others can't? Maybe because with a Nauticat we are fairly high up - maybe 2.5m at my helm? Also, I can stick my head through the front window of my canopy while standing alongside the wheel, so I have nothing to obscure my vision above. Anyway, there has to be a reason; we have absolutely no axe to grind about what kind of light to use, it is just that in our experience masthead lights are easier to see.

I am also intrigued to see that almost every poster making negative comments about masthead lights remarks on the power consumption and difficulty in changing bulbs /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I have not changed my masthead bulb since we bought the boat in 2004 and we have spent a couple of hundred nights at anchor, I suppose. Even so, I can get up the mast with mast steps in ten minutes.

Thinking about lamp life; at anchor the engine is not running so the volts are low, prolonging life. Unlike nav lights and steaming lights which by definition only used with the engine running (think fast chargers and automobile chargers giving charging voltages in the late 14s.).
 
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Remember that most people see their anchor lights from their dinghies coming back from the shore. They look entirely different when seen from a deck level of 2m approaching from seaward, against a background of shore lights. In very rural anchorages, that's different and I think then a lower light is marginally better - especially the cheap blue-ish LEDs that stand out from almost everything else.

What surprises me is that my wife and I have no problem at all seeing masthead anchor lights and we never find them hard to pick out from the stars (totally different colour and brightness), yet the lower ones are often very hard to see.

Hurricane lamps can be impossible to see against shore sodium lights.

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I don't have any trouble 'seeing' masthead anchor lights at all, but I do have difficulty judging how far away they are. This is probably because a light on a tall masthead will look farther away than one on a shorter mast or a dimmer light farther away than a brighter one or any combination of these factors. By contrast, a light hung in the rigging lower down will light up the deck, coachroof, sailcovers, hoods etc as well as being directly visible itself. It is the visibilty of the illuminated objects on board that makes distance judgement easier I believe. Our topsides and deck are all white and sailcovers light grey so they do reflect light well, especially compared to say a varnished coachroof and a teak deck.

I have viewed our lights from a variety of directions and ranges, not just from the shore and we often enter and leave anchorages at night so do understand the difficulties. My main concern in crowded anchorages, as opposed to ones close to a channel or fishing boats and ships, is visibility at shorter ranges. It really matters little that an incoming boat will see me from a mile or more away, or even half a mile, but what does matter is that he can see all of my boat from stem to stern when say 100yds away and can pick a way round me. As I said elsewhere, we mostly use a good quality brass hurricane light on a line between hood and gantry and this is enough to light the cockpit and the deck up to the bow. We also carry a Davies electric fresnel lens anchor light which we can hang off the forestay, in the shrouds or also back in the cockpit. We have another 10w plain lens brass anchor lamp and of course a masthead one as well. However often until we go to bed we will also use a Gaz gas lantern in the cockpit so as to see the gin and tonics as well as to play Scrabble or cards! So we are pretty well covered all night and especially so up to say 23.00 'ish with the gas light as well, later arrivals are usually much fewer in numbers!

I will admit that few of our regular anchorages are brightly lit on shore, but I have also found bright lights ashore can make seeing other boats even unlit ones possible with practice. In this case you are looking for lights that 'vanish' or dark areas that appear where a light was before, like looking at negatives instead of prints. It may be that being home based in Poole and with years of entering at night with a number of unlit buoys against the bright lights of Poole/Bournemoth, we have had much practice in seeing the unlit stuff!

I cannot remember either when I last changed a masthead bulb but I do worry about power usage! We have both wind and solar power but no generator other than the engine alternators (2), but at anchor we go into power saving mode in order that we can stay as long as we wish without needing additional charging from the engine. The masthead anchor light at 10W will use say 7Ah/day which although small is the same as 3hrs/day run time of the fridge and it is cumulative! A week at anchor would see the anchorlight alone using nearly 50Ah and this is the useable capacity of a sizeable 100Ah battery. With a generator used daily for watermaking or hot water as well as charging, I can see that the anchorlight usage is not even noticeable, but without a generator it would be.
 
Yes, I accept what you say about estimating distance and certainly the more information the brain is given, the easier it is. Mind you, I have seldom seen any low-level anchor lights bright enough to illuminate the topsides to any appreciable extent.

I agree that the need to have visibility of 2nm seems pointless BUT by specifying that range, in clear viz, the brightness of the light source is defined, and that is important when picking out one light against many others or in mist or rain. If you were to remove the 2nm requirement, what would you change it for, and would it be sufficiently visible?
 
Like many others I now use an LED anchorlight at about shoulder height. Viewed from the shore say half a mile away it is usually the brightest light in the anchorage at a fraction of the amperage. Creeping late into an anchorage I do prefer lower lights, altho I can see the mast top ones. It still surprises me how many boats forget to turn theirs on, especially with so many skippers at retirement age, who have lost some night vision (compared to their youth!).
 
[quoteI agree that the need to have visibility of 2nm seems pointless BUT by specifying that range, in clear viz, the brightness of the light source is defined, and that is important when picking out one light against many others or in mist or rain. If you were to remove the 2nm requirement, what would you change it for, and would it be sufficiently visible

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I wouldn't change the existing requirement of 2nm, because if anchored in a busy place like just out of a main deepwater channel or somewhere busy with larger vessels that would be called for. In a noninated recognised anchorage in shallowish waters then less is fine under most circumstances. If it was a really dirty night I would use something brighter, but still lower down.
 
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you normally have cockpit bimini covers and sometimes even extended cockpit covers. It had been a hot day so I had both. This means that as you move around the anchorage, you cannot see lights 15-30 meters up in the air;

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As you know that there is a problem with masthead lights, wouldn't it be wise to stow the covers before you get to the anchorage?
 
I sympathize with your experience, and this is a pretty good discussion with lots of useful comments. Some anchorages are worse than others, and we had two boats drag passed us in Pedi (Simi) last year in the middle of the night. And it wasn't even that windy.

Anyway, I don't think the colregs could be changed much to minimize such incidents. The thing with rules such as the colregs is that to be effective in as many situations as possible they have to: a) be simple, b) be unambiguous, and c) be easy to understand.

To say that at anchor it is required to have an all-round light visible at 2nm is according to me a simple, unambiguous and easy rule. Sure it doesn't cover 100% of possible situations, but it is good enough. If you for example take away the 2nm limit what do you replace it with? 1nm? or 500m if anchored in close quarters, else 2nm, or 35 lumen?, 20W? You see the problem - then the rules become ambiguous, and open for discussion.

Personally I don't like the garden lights. Many are simply not strong enough (although they are getting better), and you never really know where they are positioned, and as someone else pointed out, they are rarely strong enough to light up any other part of the boat. Having said that I have no objection to any boat using them as a supplement to the masthead light. They do no harm, and can make the boat more visible.

I have to confess that last year I started to make my own adaptation to the colregs because the 20W masthead light was using a lot of battery power. I bought a 2nm approved LED replacement unit for the masthead which used less than 1Ah and keep it on at all times now. The bright white LED light is even brighter than a 20W incandescent bulb.

I believe that the Swiss have a different anchor rule, and they use some type of a flashing light. I also remember having read in a yachting magazine last year and article about how you, following an obscure colreg clause can increase your visibility by having extra lights below the masthead. I believe it was colored light, one above the other but am not sure. I will look it up.

Cheers
 
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I believe that the Swiss have a different anchor rule, and they use some type of a flashing light. I also remember having read in a yachting magazine last year and article about how you, following an obscure colreg clause can increase your visibility by having extra lights below the masthead. I believe it was colored light, one above the other but am not sure. I will look it up.

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Do they have anchorages in the Alps? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Joking apart, in a crowded anchorage can you imagine what it would look like as you approach from seaward with all of them using flashing lights or as suggested by someone else using strobe lights flashing away?
 
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in a crowded anchorage can you imagine what it would look like as you approach from seaward with all of them using flashing lights or as suggested by someone else using strobe lights flashing away?

[/ QUOTE ]Even if it was a good idea (and I don't think that it is) the most important thing about marine lights is to show the correct lights exactly as laid down in the book. Otherwise it is impossible to determine what you are looking at.
 
[/ QUOTE ]Even if it was a good idea (and I don't think that it is) the most important thing about marine lights is to show the correct lights exactly as laid down in the book. Otherwise it is impossible to determine what you are looking at.

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Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, in the Caribbean on average 50% will have the right lights, 40% some wierd mixture of running lights, strobes or blue lights and 10% none at all. So we can talk all we like and do our best but I suspect the problem will still be there!!!
 
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I mentioned before, in the Caribbean on average 50% will have the right lights, 40% some weird mixture of running lights, strobes or blue lights and 10% none at all. So we can talk all we like and do our best but I suspect the problem will still be there!!!

[/ QUOTE ]Sure, but if those of us who do give the matter due consideration, do the right thing - i.e. comply insofar as it is reasonably possible for them to do so - and not go and do their own thing because they think they have a better idea, then the waters will be a bit safer for us all.
 
We have an anchor light that illuminates most of the boat - it is set just forward of the mizzen mast. This anchor light gets put on when we are in an anchorage that doesn't have a lot of boats in it, meaning that we can be seen pretty well by yachts entering the anchorage at night.

If there are other yachts around, then we hang an anchor light from our forestay, which shows up the bow of the boat particularly well. This anchor-light is a Toplicht paraffin one and has been exceptionally good at staying on all night.

I must admit that I've always thought the practise of yachts having anchor lights at the top of the mast a little ridiculous - people aren't generally looking 50 feet up in the air when they're cruising around an anchorage!

The only time we use our masthead anchor-light (which is extremely powerful) is when we are in the open ocean, in bad visibility and there is shipping around (it eats juice, which is why it's hardly ever turned on!) - it's the most visible light we have on board.

Also, regarding having a light other than white on, I have always found it incredibly annoying. When you're approaching an anchorage at night and there are multi-coloured lights on, it makes it even more confusing as to who's doing what - espeically if there are also lights on the shore. And the idea of flashing anchor lights is awful - although they are highly visible, they are also incredibly distracting. A single white light, relatively low down so that part of the boat is illuminated, should be sufficient for regular, marked anchorages. Only when shipping is likely to be encountered do I think a masthead light should be used - the bridge on a ship is just too high to notice anything 7 feet above the water.
 
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