Masthead anchor light colreg is meaningless for yachts

[Anonymous]

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I must admit that I've always thought the practise of yachts having anchor lights at the top of the mast a little ridiculous - people aren't generally looking 50 feet up in the air when they're cruising around an anchorage!

[/ QUOTE ] Since the vast majority of yacht manufacturers fit, as standard, anchor lights on the masthead, isn't it foolish to the point of insanity not to be looking for a light at masthead height, in an anchorage? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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The only time we use our masthead anchor-light (which is extremely powerful) is when we are in the open ocean, in bad visibility and there is shipping around

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That's guaranteed to confuse everyone. Nobody is expecting an all-round white at sea. I suggest that using that particular light in those circumstances is more likely to cause a collision than prevent one.

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should be sufficient for regular, marked anchorages.

[/ QUOTE ] Don't forget that anchorages come and go and they are not always updated (certainly yacht anchorages are not updated by Notices). So what is to you a "regular marked anchorage" is, to the other guys, just another stretch of sea.

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the bridge on a ship is just too high to notice anything 7 feet above the water.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think that you meant that but what did you mean? From the bridge of a ship you can see from sea level upwards - as long as the lights themselves are not focused in such a way that they are directed horizontally along the sea, at sea level and do not shine up. The colregs specify the nature of the light - another good reason to follow the colregs and not invent one's own lighting schemes!

 

[SunyBay]

I must admit that I've always thought the practise of yachts having anchor lights at the top of the mast a little ridiculous - people aren't generally looking 50 feet up in the air when they're cruising around an anchorage!

Since the vast majority of yacht manufacturers fit, as standard, anchor lights on the masthead, isn't it foolish to the point of insanity not to be looking for a light at masthead height, in an anchorage? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I suppose I didn't really clarify what I meant. I'm referring not when you are approaching an anchorage, when of course a masthead anchor light is just as good as any other, but rather I'm referring to when you are actually in the anchorage, manoeuvring amongst the boats. Then of course you are not looking up but instead are looking around you - and down at the water - for dinghies, mooring buoys etc. Having a light on the masthead does not illuminate the vessel in any way and therefore does not give an indication of either how large the vessel is (within reason, obviously I'm talking about yachts as opposed to vessels above 20 metres which are obliged to have two anchor lights) or which way it is lying. Needless to say, I'm also referring to instances when it is pitch black and you can't necessarily even make out the outlines of the vessels. A light lower down in the fore triangle illuminates quite a bit of the boat and gives an indication of size and helps you to manoeuvre amongst the anchored yachts. (I think that perhaps some people prefer to use anchor lights lower down because then they remember to turn them off during the day time. I've seen quite a few yachts with their masthead anchor light and/or masthead navigation lights on during the day (and the masthead navigation lights on during the night when they are anchored, which causes a great deal of confusion!).

The only time we use our masthead anchor-light (which is extremely powerful) is when we are in the open ocean, in bad visibility and there is shipping around

That's guaranteed to confuse everyone. Nobody is expecting an all-round white at sea. I suggest that using that particular light in those circumstances is more likely to cause a collision than prevent one.

First of all, an all-round white at sea looks like a stern light. If you see a stern light, then you have to assume that you are the overtaking vessel and therefore must keep clear. Considering the fact that most vessels that we have encountered in the open ocean have been large ships travelling considerably faster than we are, our one white light moves relatively slowly for them and thus they can easily keep clear, probably without even having to make an alteration of course. I should reiterate I am talking about open ocean not crossing shipping lanes or where there is more than one ship on the horizon. Then of course, all running lights are on. Also, we never ever rely on our lights being spotted by shipping and keep a good lookout. Our theory is that we are much more likely to spot a large tanker before they spot us and therefore we can keep out of their way. If there is any chance of us passing even reasonably close, then the port and starboard lights go on.

should be sufficient for regular, marked anchorages.

Don't forget that anchorages come and go and they are not always updated (certainly yacht anchorages are not updated by Notices). So what is to you a "regular marked anchorage" is, to the other guys, just another stretch of sea.

Again, I shall clarify what I meant. I'm not talking about the large anchorages which are marked on Admiralty charts but those that are marked on pilot books (which quite often are not marked on Admiralty charts). Anywhere that is suitable for anchoring surely isn't really a "stretch of sea". If you have thought about anchoring there then why shouldn't other people have also thought to? If you have deemed it a suitable spot for anchoring, then one would hope it is a sheltered place to be and probably a little out of the way of passage-making yachts. Besides that, if you're sailing along in the dark and see a few white lights, either high up (on the top of a mast) or lower down (in the fore triangle), they are clearly on something, be it a buoy, a vessel or land and therefore you're going to try and not hit it.

the bridge on a ship is just too high to notice anything 7 feet above the water.

I don't think that you meant that but what did you mean? From the bridge of a ship you can see from sea level upwards - as long as the lights themselves are not focused in such a way that they are directed horizontally along the sea, at sea level and do not shine up. The colregs specify the nature of the light - another good reason to follow the colregs and not invent one's own lighting schemes!

This only works if you are on a flat sea. If you are in a small boat in a large sea, half the boat is not going to be visible for a lot of the time, even from a platform as high up as a ship's bridge. I'm talking about a distance between the yacht and ship of at least a mile. Naturally the closer the vessels, the more likely they are to see each other, no matter where the lights are situated. In rough weather and in bad visibility, a light lower down on a yacht wouldn't be seen from the ship half the time. I should reiterate that again I'm talking about sailing in the open ocean, when you are likely to see only one or perhaps two ships at once, and then probably only on the horizon. Naturally, if there is the possibility of any close encounter with a vessel, all of the navigation lights that should be shown for your vessel should be on. Also, I would never rely on a ship in the open ocean spotting my vessel. As a result, I rely on myself to spot the large ships traversing the ocean and not them spotting me.

In coastal sailing, naturally all nav lights should be shown. I certainly don't condone not showing the proper lights in an area where you are definitely going to encounter other vessels. And I always keep a good lookout.

I hope that clarifies what I said in my previous post. I certainly wouldn't want anyone thinking that I was dismissing the idea of showing proper running lights - I was merely referring to one particular situation where it may not always be necessary, and only then if you were keeping a good lookout yourself. (It should be noted that one of the other reasons we try to limit the amount of lights we show when on an ocean passage is because they use up a lot of power and we would rather not have to run our engine or generator every other day.)

(Also, we have never had an close encounter with shipping in the open ocean. I would propose that those people who do do not keep the best lookout they could themselves. A large ship is much easier to spot than a small yacht and there really aren't that many lights out on the ocean, so spotting one from a yacht is fairly easy.)

 

[jordanbasset]

I some times think carefully before replying to a thread but this has to be a record,27 months, well done. But was good to read the thread as I must have missed it first time

 

[SunyBay]

Well, I'm only just back on the forum, having been off for, as you can see, 2 years, and I did think quite a bit before replying, but as I felt I was being misunderstood, I thought I should defend myself and clarify things. It wasn't just a "bumping" of the thread - I personally dislike it when people do that.

Anyway, as you say, I'm sure people will have missed it previously and thus it gets an airing.

 

[maxi77]

The really interesting thing about all this is the number of people who seem to be admitting to failing to keep a proper lookout in such situations.