Mast ladder attachment thoughts, suggestions...

[Yellow Ballad]

Just after a bit of experienced advice. I've been lucky enough to have been bought a Hurst mast ladder for my birthday and managed to try it out last weekend, my only issue was the ring stitched into the top was pretty small about 25mm diameter and my halyard has a hard eye spliced in which meant I couldn't pass the eye through the loop. What would people suggest be the best way of attaching said halyard to said ladder? I can pass a bight through the ring so I could tie a bowline on a bight but it would mean passing the whole ladder throught the bight as well. I know a shackle is a no no but I assume a locking carabiner through the hard eye or a climbing figure of eight (or both) would be ok?

I was tailed in a bosuns chair as my safety line but I want to be able to climb without needed another person to be at/under the mast. I was going to use a single prusik knot on a line hoisted on the topping lift but I'm tempted in buying a single ascender (I have a figure of 8 decender to be able to lower myself). It would only be there if I slipped on the ladder or the ladder failed. Again, having a hard eye what would peoples thoughts be on joining the safety line to the halyard. Any bad thoughts having an ascender on a bosuns chair? Again a carabiner is ok for joining the two?

I know it may be simple stuff but I'm not a climber, I'm happy going up with my feet on the ladder and it'll only be a handful of time a season at most. Thought it best to ask the forum...

 

[kalanka]

If I am understanding your problem correctly I would suggest the following:

Using a locking karabiner is a good means of connection between halyard and mast ladder as long as it is fairly loaded (no side strains).

I do have a serious climbing background.... and mast steps. I think you could use the same method as I do:

Wear a climbing harness and attach an ascender (I use a Jumar) to the harness belay loop on a secure sling about 3 or 4 feet long. Tie off a halyard to the deck and tension it up a little (this makes moving the descender much easier). Attach the Jumar to the halyard. The halyard diameter must match the specified diameter of rope for which the device is designed - usually 9mm - 11mm

Climb your ladder, pausing every few feet to slide the descender up to above your head. This is your protection. If you need both hands to work, push the ascender up till it can take some weight. If doing this I might consider having a second halyard to clip into via a temporary loop and a locking karabiner - belt and braces.

Transferring to a descender from an ascender is fraught with difficulties. I suggest simply climbing back down the ladder, periodically sliding the ascender or Prussik down to maintain your protection.

You can do this with a Prussik knot but a decent ascender is much more trustworthy and easier to use. Ones with handles are easier but pricier.

As I said, I favour the Jumar but would not recommend it to someone not familiar with its subtleties. If you must use a knot a better choice is the Penberthy knot but with all such knots you need to be careful that they are gripping after you have slid it up or down the rope. Ascenders and harnesses are available on eBay or you can buy new in a climbing shop.

Ascenders are LH and RH buy one that matches your favoured hand - lets you see the cam in action.

Play around with the system near the deck and take your time.

Good luck!

 

[kalanka]

Climb your ladder, pausing every few feet to slide the descender should read Climb your ladder, pausing every few feet to slide the ASCENDER

 

[kalanka]

You can see why I prefer Jumar - it avoids the confusion between ascenders and descenders to which I have succumbed!

"Moving the descender" should read "moving the ascender"

Sorry!

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Thanks for the reply, your method is exactly how I plan to climb.

Really my concern was the best way to connect the ladder to the halyard, a carabiner sounds like it's up to it. I assume you would be happy clipping through a spliced hard eye, or would you prefer a self tied knot?

I do plan on using the ladder to descend but the figure of 8 would be there just incase the ladder halyard failed and I was stuck on the safety line hanging by a single ascender. I'm sure I could monkey cling to the mast and make it down but as you say belt and braces.

Thanks again.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Why is a shackle a no-no to attach the halliard to the ladder? I would have thought a decent sized shackle, say 10mm should be more than adequate especially as I would make sure the pin was tightened with a shackle key or pliers.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

I assume the same reason people say not to shackle a bosuns chair to a halyard. The reason I don't know, but it's what I've read.

 

[thinwater]

Why is a shackle a no-no to attach the halliard to the ladder? I would have thought a decent sized shackle, say 10mm should be more than adequate especially as I would make sure the pin was tightened with a shackle key or pliers.

A snap shackle, AKA spinnaker shackle, is a big no-no. People have fallen using these. It is way too easy for the lanyard to get pulled, and splat.

A pin shackle is OK if tight. The nice things about locking carabiners is that they are fast, and that even if not locked, it still takes atrociously bad luck for one to come off. A pin shackle can work loose, and splat.

I like to keep an assortment of carabiners on board for contingency rigging, both locking and wire gate (more corrosion resistant). Inexpensive and darn handy for rigging many things, including MOB recovery.

No, I would not worry about a good looking splice, having pull-tested many of them to failure. I don't think I have ever had a failure significantly below the strength of the line. But a figure 8 on a bight removes all doubt if something looks wrong.

Remember that climbers inspect the the full length of their ropes after each use, while coiling, and retire them very young. Halyards can be pretty sketchy, which is why you need two.

I've been climbing for 35 years and still do.

(from this past winter)

 

[Pye_End]

If you put a carabiner on the ring can you then get the eye splice through it, and then use a figure of 8 in the traditional way, or is it still too small?

 

[Yellow Ballad]

If you put a carabiner on the ring can you then get the eye splice through it, and then use a figure of 8 in the traditional way, or is it still too small?

It would be possible but just add extra length from the top of the ladder to the top of the mast.

Thinwater, thanks for the reply. Totally different world to me, I prefer to keep my feet on something solid.

 

[William_H]

I would suggest OP use an ordinary galvanised shackle, the largest that will suit the halyard eye and the ss ring, but use one with a hole in the pin handle so you can fit a cable tie to guarantee it does not come undone. An ordinary screw shackle can come undone with working load as seen on moorings etc. As said however you need a back up safety line. olewill

 

[thinwater]

Thinwater, thanks for the reply. Totally different world to me, I prefer to keep my feet on something solid.

I am on something solid. Ice.



Yes, you can use a galvanized shackle. I've used D-style halyard shackles and felt good about it. But I would also start collecting some proper climbing gear an learn about climbing methods. For example, Jumars will fail at about 1200-1400 pounds in a fall, and that is not too hard to reach on a non-stretch halyard; climbers use them without slack for ascending only and the ropes have more stretch.

Sailing gear for sailing. Climbing gear for climbing. Each has been optimized for a specific purpose.