Mast Damage

[raro3]

I'm looking for some advice on my mast which is on a Hunter Channel 245, and is a Z-Spar fractional rig. It, and the standing rigging, was replaced by the previous owner in 2018 and, to me, looked in great condition. Nevertheless, I recently had a routine rig check by a local (and reputable) rigger who said that everything was OK apart from there being a bend below the spreaders. I thought he was referring to the rake of the mast but he said it was a lateral bend. I can't see any bend no matter how hard I look, but I'm prepared to rely on his expertise, although the bend must be very slight. He said it was probably damaged either when it was installed, or during subsequent removal. I asked the rigger what the remedy was, and he said that, to be certain of no future problems it would needs replacing and he wouldn't be drawn on the likelihood of a rig failure (fair enough I guess). I took several photos from dead astern and, as I said, I really can't see the bend and I have a problem forking out £6k for a new mast / delivery / fitting. My question is, has anyone else encountered a similar problem and have advice on whether I should change the mast given that most of my sailing these days (in my advanced years) is in clement weather and relatively calm water. Thanks for any comments.

 

[Wansworth]

Second opinion?

 

[dunedin]

If it is a lateral/sideways bend mid way up, the way of inspecting would normally be to sight up the groove for the mainsail luff rope / sliders.
Have you looked up this, and taken a few pictures. If a gentle curve it can be just unequal lower shroud tension, which can be adjusted out.
But if rigger concerned, I would expect to see a significant kink at one point. If so also need to check carefully side walls for dents / cracks on sides at that point.
Any photos?

 

[Boathook]

The mast on my boat, 9m Catalac, had damage by the spreaders. Very difficult to see and made no difference to the main going up and down.
The rigger after consultation with Kemp / Selden moved the spreaders up by about 150mm so that it moved all the "bending" forces from the "damage". Never a problem over many years.
We think the damage happened on a Round the Island race many years earlier, when we broached with the spinnaker up. One hell of a bang and we went sideways rapidly. Took the spinnaker down after that.

Came second in class, only beaten by a few minutes. If only we had kept the spinnaker up !

 

[oldbloke]

As above, if there is no creasing, or on the other side, stretch marks then it's unlikely to be serious. On dinghies you would rest it on a couple of trestles and bounce it straight. The rigs on cruisers are very robust and , practically, foolproof.

 

[wallacebob]

If you’re a member, ask on Hunter Association. I see no discussions on this tho’. The 245 mast isn’t difficult to drop and then get a good sight line, maybe worth it for peace of mind. It does all depend on your use, and risk aversion! If the sail is hoisting and dropping easily, then I’d be happy.

 

[greeny]

What does he mean by a "lateral bend"? Can he he point it out visually to you? Or by "bend" does he mean dent or crease in the wall? To me a bend is a misalignment that can only be seen with the rig de tensioned and in many cases can be corrected by rig tension adjustment. Seeing as the mast was inspected installed and tensioned, I'm not sure how he can flag it as a problem. A dent in the mast or a crease is very different and needs serious consideration.
I think you deserve a more succinct description of the problem seeing as you've paid him for the survey. Seems he's left you guessing a bit with what the problem actually is.

 

[Neeves]

What is meant by 'below the spreaders'. If its low enough could you simply sleeve, internally, the mast covering the 'damaged' section. Its a common enough technique to repair broken masts (and masts used to be made, may still be made, the same way), though you loose the ability to bend the mast evenly, with say the backstay (but if you don't race this would not be an issue). You would only do this if the mast has a significant bend - and it sounds as if (if the bend is so difficult to see) its not major.

If a sleeve is good enough to repair a broken mast its good enough to strengthen an invisible bend and allow you to use your yacht with confidence.

A sleeve is usually a section of the same mast, or similar, not a full section but a 'U' section so that it will flex to get into the mast and is then hammered up into one section and the other section of the mast forced down to form a joint in the middle of the sleeve - then riveted. The bend needs to be located and measured so that the sleeve covers the bend evenly. If there alreadymcomponens, the boom, riveted to the mast these would need to be drilled out (to allow the sleeve to be pushed into the mast)

Riggers commonly have mast sections from broken masts that they might keep 'just in case', or they do here. You might get lucky and someone has a piece of the right dimensions from which you can have a couple of metres.

A second opinion might cost money - I'd take some pictures and post on this thread before taking further action.

Jonathan

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I'd start by taking a taught line from the mast head down to the gooseneck. The main halyard would be my first choice.
This should make it easier to see any lateral bend in the mast.
If a bend is seen, then I'd slacken all the rigging, and see if bend is still there.
If a bend is still there, then the mast has what I'd call a "set" in it and it would be difficult and probably unnecessary to straighten the mast.
A set occurs when the mast is bent beyond its elastic limit. The internal structure of the aluminium will have changed and will have become to some extent, work hardened. The mast will be little stiffer, but it is unlikely to have lost any strength.
If no bend is seen, then I'd take the mast down, and go over it carefully, looking for any signs of damage, an indent or stress makings in the anodising.
I look very careful around the spreader roots and the hounds, both both on the mast and the rivets holding the fittings. These are high stress areas and more likely to show signs of strain.
Over the years I've had to deal with several bent mast. I'd be wary of jumping to fix it, especially if the is a slight set in the mast. Any attempt to bend it in the opposite direction, may in crease the chance of failure.
Hope this helps.

 

[greeny]

I still say that the rigger should be showing the OP where the bend is that he's identified. Until then, we're all guessing.

 

[Neeves]

I'd suggest the rigger is looking for more work, at a cost - which is why he has been parsimonious with his information so far. Maybe in his industry and location being melodramatic engenders business

Don't jump into anything costing money until you have exhausted the advice here, see Post 9 - and post some pictures......

that's what YBW PBO is for

Yes, we are guessing but there are skills here untapped - be patient.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I suspect that a Hunter Channel 245 mast is grossly over engineered and almost bullet proof and failures are notable by their absence - the idea of mast replacement for an apparent bend (that appeared invisible) is, so far, unsupportable .....

A picture, or 2, (in this day and age of AI) is still worth a thousand words.

Jonathan

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I suspect that a Hunter Channel 245 mast is grossly over engineered and almost bullet proof and failures are notable by their absence - the idea of mast replacement for an apparent bend (that appeared invisible) is, so far, unsupportable .....

A picture, or 2, (in this day and age of AI) is still worth a thousand words.

Jonathan

A picture looking up the mainsail luff groove for a preference. Though a sight up there with a Mk1 eyeball may be sufficient. This ain’t rocket science here.