marinias reopening

[Elessar]

Yep, you'd already established that you are a MAMIL. That just goes to reinforce that you entirely fit the general public's perception thereof.

WTF has what I wear on my bike got to do with it?

 

[bdh198]

Forgive me, I am but a humble retired engineer not a lawyer, and not adept at reading primary legislation with a legal understanding*. I have a number of questions, I am assuming you are a fully qualified solicitor or barrister and would be grateful for your opinion:

This is the relevant legislation: The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020

By the way, it’s secondary legislation, not primary legislation. That means it is made by the relevant Secretary of State (in this case, the Health Secretary) using delegated powers under primary legislation. It has not been debated or passed by parliament, which is one of the major criticisms of these regulations. In this case the primary legislation is the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.

1) Can you point out the exact paragraph that stated I am forbidden to leave my usual abode to do "things",

Schedule 3A, Part 1, Paragraph 1...

1.—(1) No person who lives in the Tier 4 area may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

There then follows a non-exhaustive list of a number of “exceptions” to the leaving home restriction which might be considered a “reasonable excuse”. This includes the exception for exercise.

Note: from the 5th of January the whole country (England) has been in Tier 4.

2) What the definition of "local" is.

There is no statutory definition of “local” in the regulations because that word never actually appears in the regulations. The only use of the word “local” is in the government guidance, which is ‘guidance’ and is not the law.

Therefore, there is no legal requirement to exercise, or to do anything else that might constitute a reasonable excuse, locally. However, in assessing whether someone has a reasonable excuse to leave or be outside the place they are living then the distance they travel may well be something that should be taken into consideration. Therefore, travelling outside your local area will not automatically be in breach of the regulations, it will depend very much on the particular circumstances and whether the travel can be considered “reasonable”. See example in post #34.

3) Has any part of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020s act been tested in a court of law and;

There have been cases before the magistrates’ court, but there haven’t been any appeals (JR or by way of case stated) on the interpretation of the stay at home restriction. The fact it only carries a fine, and the CPS have been swift to withdraw or reopen any cases that suggests the interpretation of the law is inappropriate (January's coronavirus review findings | The Crown Prosecution Service) no doubt has helped keep cases out of the higher courts.

4) Since we are in a "national lockdown" have tiers been suspended, if so what law covers national lockdown?

As above, the relevant regulations are The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020. This was the law that came into force following the end of the second lockdown in early December. However, on the 5th January all parts of England were put in Tier 4 for the purpose of creating a third lockdown.


If anyone is genuinely interested in the practical application of the law and understanding what the regulations mean, then a good place to start is with this podcast from Adam Wagner (human rights barrister at Doughty Street Chambers):

 

[jimi]

Mind you, as a cyclist who averages over 200 miles per week I see a lot of things. I see lots of pubs open judging by lights on and cars in car park, people congregating in groups. Cars packed with young people. One in ten vehicles that pass me stink of dope. I did a 100 mile ride yesterday and did not see a single police vehicle. In that context, working on ones boat by oneself with zero transmission risk is not something the enforcement agencies are going to get anal about.

 

[longjohnsilver]

But the notes clearly state- It is the law
The guidance is just placing the jargon into prose which should be easier to understand by the average user The words "It is the law" Links to the statutory notice on the form on the govts site

Summary: what you can and cannot do during the national lockdown
You must stay at home. The single most important action we can all take is to stay at home to protect the NHS and save lives.

You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

Leaving home
You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:

• shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
• go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
• exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
• meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
• seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
• attend education or childcare - for those eligible
• If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay in your local area - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work.

Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.
If you are clinically extremely vulnerable you are advised to only go out for medical appointments, exercise or if it is essential. We recommend that you do not attend work

Meeting others

You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

“This is the law“ is actually a link to the law. The rest of your post quotes the guidance, which is NOT the law.

I'm sure it was phrased as such to confuse the public. And was successful in that intention.

 

[Daydream believer]

Not widely documented or completely misquoted/misunderstood by you.

Your case, like quite a few, is completely defenseless & socially unacceptable. However, as you have clearly pointed out, you do not care. Fortunately the majority do have a moral attitude in tune with their fellow man/woman

 

[lustyd]

However, in assessing whether someone has a reasonable excuse to leave or be outside the place they are living then the distance they travel may well be something that should be taken into consideration.

Who is assessing, and why would they do so. As far as I know someone would only be in a position to discuss that if the police had put them there, and the police have stated they will not enforce a requirement of being local. This mess will be over shortly, so it's largely irrelevant.

 

[Elessar]

Your case, like quite a few, is completely defenseless & socially unacceptable. However, as you have clearly pointed out, you do not care. Fortunately the majority do have a moral attitude in tune with their fellow man/woman

I’m not hurting you in any way. If you want to stay locked up in your house being grumpy that’s fine by me.
If you bothered to come out into the glorious sunshine you’d see increasing numbers are no longer following these indefensible and ineffective restrictions.
Outside with social distancing is virtually zero risk and people have rumbled the myth.
There was a traffic queue to get to the witterings yesterday !!

 

[Sandy]

This is the relevant legislation: The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020

Thank you that has been useful.

I'd still be interested in the question about collecting my library books and if Daydream believer is a solicitor or Barrister.

 

[lustyd]

I don't think those are the only two options.

 

[Daydream believer]

If you want to stay locked up in your house being grumpy that’s fine by me.

I can assure you that I am far from grumpy. I do have a life & can find plenty to do, without rushing to my boat for self gratification

 

[lustyd]

We can all find things to do alone indoors. After a few weeks though, it's healthy to get out and be part of the world

 

[Elessar]

I can assure you that I am far from grumpy. I do have a life & can find plenty to do, without rushing to my boat for self gratification

Then we can both be happy. Excellent. Me on my boat and you in your house. What’s there to disagree about?

 

[Daydream believer]

We can all find things to do alone indoors. After a few weeks though, it's healthy to get out and be part of the world

That is the point- Right now it is NOT healthy.

 

[Elessar]

That is the point- Right now it is NOT healthy.

Why not?

 

[lustyd]

That is the point- Right now it is NOT healthy.

You're confusing healthy and risky. Risk can be managed, health can not. Even prisons recognise that 24x7 inside for a year is bad news.

 

[Elessar]

You're confusing healthy and risky. Risk can be managed, health can not. Even prisons recognise that 24x7 inside for a year is bad news.

Quite
And risk is a function of likelihood and severity.
The likelihood of catching covid outside with social distancing?. Very low tending to zero.
Severity also getting lower as vaccines roll out to vulnerable groups.
Risk therefore low enough.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why is it a pity? What harm are people doing by being in their boats today?

Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia

 

[Achosenman]

Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia

An individuals personal property (boat) is not a common resource, neither is it being used up.

 

[bdh198]

Who is assessing, and why would they do so. As far as I know someone would only be in a position to discuss that if the police had put them there, and the police have stated they will not enforce a requirement of being local. This mess will be over shortly, so it's largely irrelevant.

Exactly, and that’s another reason why thinking “locally” in terms of the regulations is a red herring. The last thing the police want to be doing is wasting their time policing individuals messing about on their boat with no risk of spreading the virus.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why not?

Pandemic?