marinias reopening

[Elessar]

My observations lead me to believe that the entire body of English and Welsh law does not apply to cyclists. The CV19 regulations are no different.

And of course you’ve never driven at 31mph.

My primary recreation is the boat (sailing and maintaining it is all part of the hobby). I live 5 miles from my marina. I am not sure I can justify visiting the marina under the current rules, however from the latest government papers, Rule 93 states:

93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors - with their own household, support or childcare bubble, or with one person from another household. Social distancing and other safe behaviours should be followed

The Oxford dictionary definition of "recreation":
the fact of people doing things for enjoyment, when they are not working

I will have no qualms about visiting the boat from the 8th to carry out maintenance and cleaning, I will however do my best to avoid close contact with others outside of my household.

Good for you for caring more about the rules than I do.
To help you, remember that polishing the boat is good exercise.
Go to your boat today in this lovely sunshine with a clear conscience.

 

[Daydream believer]

My primary recreation is the boat (sailing and maintaining it is all part of the hobby). I live 5 miles from my marina. I am not sure I can justify visiting the marina under the current rules, however from the latest government papers, Rule 93 states:

93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors - with their own household, support or childcare bubble, or with one person from another household. Social distancing and other safe behaviours should be followed

The Oxford dictionary definition of "recreation":
the fact of people doing things for enjoyment, when they are not working

I will have no qualms about visiting the boat from the 8th to carry out maintenance and cleaning, I will however do my best to avoid close contact with others outside of my household.

I would support that wholeheartedly, as a responsible attitude. Pity others on this forum cannot think- and act- likewise.

 

[Daydream believer]

You clearly have no understanding of mental health problems, you're very lucky.

I have worked around & in mental health establishments over the years.both in charity & commercial situations. One of the very few memories from the age of 6 which will always be with me, is a an 18 year old girl I was taken to visit locked in a bloody CAGE in Runwell hospital. I have been through more than enough stress . Do not tell me about mental health issues.

 

[Dadof4]

Now everybody has given their personal views of gov lockdown policy, any answers or guesses to my original question ?

 

[Sandy]

Now everybody has given their personal views of gov lockdown policy, any answers or guesses to my original question ?

That's not quite how the forum works. A question is posed, we discuss it and usually add a few pages about anchors, and in about six months you get an answer.

What was the question again

 

[halcyon]

I find it interesting that all the reasons why people are safe to visit the boat at the marina, ignore transmission by contact,. Someone may have sneezed over the side of your boat before you put your hand there, when climbing aboard, then scratched your nose.

Brian

 

[Elessar]

I would support that wholeheartedly, as a responsible attitude. Pity others on this forum cannot think- and act- likewise.

Why is it a pity? What harm are people doing by being in their boats today?

 

[Elessar]

I find it interesting that all the reasons why people are safe to visit the boat at the marina, ignore transmission by contact,. Someone may have sneezed over the side of your boat before you put your hand there, when climbing aboard, then scratched your nose.

Brian

A risk I am prepared to take. Driving there is more dangerous than that ridiculous scenario.

 

[Daydream believer]

Why is it a pity? What harm are people doing by being in their boats today?

If you do not know the answer to that then you clearly have no idea why we have lockdown in the first place.
At the marina we stopped for 6 minutes ( Our 10 mile round trip on our Bromptons took us a total 38 minutes ) we went along the access road on our bikes & it was obvious that people were circulating, as 6 people were in groups of 2 esp around the tea bar, where there was a dozen or more. It is probable that those working on their boats were going for a cuppa. A chap walked down the pontoon ramp & his had rubbed down the handrail the some way from the part we saw. All easily observed in the 6 minutes. We did not touch the barrier.
So whilst you try to sound an angel, you will find some saying the same then adding " Oh i only stopped for a quick cuppa" It is just common nature.

 

[bdh198]

Govt guidance is used by enforcement authorities to interpret legislation.

National lockdown: Stay at Home

That’s simply wrong, and if they do use it then they are not applying the law correctly. Government guidance is how the government would like us to behave. Statutory legislation (the regulations) is how we must behave or be in breach of the law. The guidance has no legal authority (hence, it is ‘guidance’). If the government wanted statutory wording to have a particular legal interpretation it would be specifically defined it in the legislation (look at any piece of legislation and you will see this happening).

The interpretation of a “reasonable excuse” (and whether you have a reasonable excuse to visit you boat) under the regulations will depend entirely on the individual circumstances of the case and not on what the government guidance suggests. It is when law enforcement agencies try and use the government guidance to interpret the law we end up in situations like this - Covid: Women on exercise trip 'surrounded by police'

The relevant guidance with regard to sailing is:

Exercising
You should minimise time spent outside your home, but you can leave your home to exercise. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

Yep, that’s the government guidance for “exercise” which is a specific exemption to the restriction for leaving or being outside your address. It is not guidance for what constitutes a “reasonable excuse”. If you visit your boat for any purpose other than for recreation, you will be relying on a reasonable excuse specific to your particular circumstances, not the exemption for exercise. And if you were visiting your boat for recreation, you would not be turning to the government guidance to determine if your circumstances were within the meaning of the regulations for the definition of exercise.

 

[HughClayton]

I find it interesting that all the reasons why people are safe to visit the boat at the marina, ignore transmission by contact,. Someone may have sneezed over the side of your boat before you put your hand there, when climbing aboard, then scratched your nose.

Brian

There is a growing body of research that shows that the risk of infection by contact with surfaces is very low. I’d suggest that that the contact risk outdoors is even lower. The major risk is from airborne aerosols.
So I have very few worries about going to a marina to sail or work on my boat but rather more concerns about going to the pub.

 

[Daydream believer]

That’s simply wrong, and if they do use it then they are not applying the law correctly. Government guidance is how the government would like us to behave. Statutory legislation (the regulations) is how we must behave or be in breach of the law. The guidance has no legal authority (hence, it is ‘guidance’). If the government wanted statutory wording to have a particular legal interpretation it would be specifically defined it in the legislation (look at any piece of legislation and you will see this happening).

But the notes clearly state- It is the law
The guidance is just placing the jargon into prose which should be easier to understand by the average user The words "It is the law" Links to the statutory notice on the form on the govts site

Summary: what you can and cannot do during the national lockdown
You must stay at home. The single most important action we can all take is to stay at home to protect the NHS and save lives.

You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

Leaving home
You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:

• shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
• go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
• exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
• meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
• seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
• attend education or childcare - for those eligible
• If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay in your local area - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work.

Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.
If you are clinically extremely vulnerable you are advised to only go out for medical appointments, exercise or if it is essential. We recommend that you do not attend work

Meeting others

You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

 

[lustyd]

You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

You see that little dot in there? Never mind.

 

[lustyd]

Coronavirus Legislation

"The law is what you must do; the guidance might be a mixture of what you must do and what you should do."

 

[Sandy]

You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

Forgive me, I am but a humble retired engineer not a lawyer, and not adept at reading primary legislation with a legal understanding*. I have a number of questions, I am assuming you are a fully qualified solicitor or barrister and would be grateful for your opinion:

1) Can you point out the exact paragraph that stated I am forbidden to leave my usual abode to do "things",

2) What the definition of "local" is;

3) Has any part of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020s act been tested in a court of law and;

4) Since we are in a "national lockdown" have tiers been suspended, if so what law covers national lockdown?

Please consider that I am required to leave my usual abode to pick up a library book. Are you of the opinion that that Devon County Council are conspiring to make me break this law?

*I had a conversation at university with a law student who told me that I needed to read law to understand the language.

 

[Elessar]

If you do not know the answer to that then you clearly have no idea why we have lockdown in the first place.
At the marina we stopped for 6 minutes ( Our 10 mile round trip on our Bromptons took us a total 38 minutes ) we went along the access road on our bikes & it was obvious that people were circulating, as 6 people were in groups of 2 esp around the tea bar, where there was a dozen or more. It is probable that those working on their boats were going for a cuppa. A chap walked down the pontoon ramp & his had rubbed down the handrail the some way from the part we saw. All easily observed in the 6 minutes. We did not touch the barrier.
So whilst you try to sound an angel, you will find some saying the same then adding " Oh i only stopped for a quick cuppa" It is just common nature.

Well I enjoyed being on my boat. So did many others on theirs.
All outside. Low risk. Less dangerous than your bike ride.
The rules are flawed which is why I, and others in increasing numbers, ignore them.
That doesn’t mean I’m careless. It means I don’t respect or follow the rules.

 

[Elessar]

But the notes clearly state- It is the law
The guidance is just placing the jargon into prose which should be easier to understand by the average user The words "It is the law" Links to the statutory notice on the form on the govts site

Summary: what you can and cannot do during the national lockdown
You must stay at home. The single most important action we can all take is to stay at home to protect the NHS and save lives.

You should follow this guidance immediately. This is the law.

Leaving home
You must not leave, or be outside of your home except where necessary. You may leave the home to:

• shop for basic necessities, for you or a vulnerable person
• go to work, or provide voluntary or charitable services, if you cannot reasonably do so from home
• exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person (in which case you should stay 2m apart). Exercise should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.
• meet your support bubble or childcare bubble where necessary, but only if you are legally permitted to form one
• seek medical assistance or avoid injury, illness or risk of harm (including domestic abuse)
• attend education or childcare - for those eligible
• If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay in your local area - unless it is necessary to go further, for example to go to work.

Staying in your local area means stay in the village, town, or part of the city where you live.
If you are clinically extremely vulnerable you are advised to only go out for medical appointments, exercise or if it is essential. We recommend that you do not attend work

Meeting others

You cannot leave your home to meet socially with anyone you do not live with or are not in a support bubble with (if you are legally permitted to form one).
You may exercise on your own, with one other person, or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.

I so don’t care.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I so don’t care.

Yep, you'd already established that you are a MAMIL. That just goes to reinforce that you entirely fit the general public's perception thereof.

 

[coveman]

A risk I am prepared to take. Driving there is more dangerous than that ridiculous scenario.

Yes, a risk you are selfishly prepared to take that could well have consequences for those that want to finally get out of this mess.
The virus, as has been widely documented, can be transmitted by anything that is touched -doors,handrails on ramps, ropes etc - it may be a small risk but is still a risk and lots of small risks quickly become a larger one -for the sake of a few more weeks it must be better for all, if lockdown means lockdown and that people did not spend endless amounts of energy trying to find ways around the spirit of the law/guidance. Unfortunately there are always a minority of idiots that make the situation for the majority worse.
The race is on to get the population vaccinated which reduces the risk of the virus mutating and allows herd immunity to develop. By showing scant regard for the present law/guidance poses a risk of further mutations developing which could easily result in ongoing onerous restrictions on us all in the future weeks/months.....

 

[Elessar]

Yes, a risk you are selfishly prepared to take that could well have consequences for those that want to finally get out of this mess.
The virus, as has been widely documented, can be transmitted by anything that is touched -doors,handrails on ramps, ropes etc - it may be a small risk but is still a risk and lots of small risks quickly become a larger one -for the sake of a few more weeks it must be better for all, if lockdown means lockdown and that people did not spend endless amounts of energy trying to find ways around the spirit of the law/guidance. Unfortunately there are always a minority of idiots that make the situation for the majority worse.
The race is on to get the population vaccinated which reduces the risk of the virus mutating and allows herd immunity to develop. By showing scant regard for the present law/guidance poses a risk of further mutations developing which could easily result in ongoing onerous restrictions on us all in the future weeks/months.....

Not widely documented or completely misquoted/misunderstood by you.