Marine SSB and Ham HF/SSB

[Bosun Higgs]

Interesting. I am positive that we used to be able to use ham radio in planes (obviously our own and not a BA scheduled flight) with the suffix AM to the callsign but whilst I can find references to us " no longer being able to do that" I cannot find when it changed. Presumably some time between when I took my RAE ( 1959) and now.

Not that its been a huge issue for me.

 

[Conachair]

Interesting. I am positive that we used to be able to use ham radio in planes (obviously our own and not a BA scheduled flight) with the suffix AM to the callsign but whilst I can find references to us " no longer being able to do that" I cannot find when it changed. Presumably some time between when I took my RAE ( 1959) and now.

Not that its been a huge issue for me.

Well, don´t know about 1959, wasn´t born then Bit of catching up to do.

They seem quite strict not transmitting airborn though
"includes full size and models and also includes balloons whether tethered or free;"
Not even models. Wonder why.

Would be interesting to see data about how many boats have marine SSB against Ham. Suspect that most would be ssb. Though I think quite a few of the more hard core boats might go ham, Jeanne Socrates one example - http://synereida.livejournal.com/147439.html With the added benifit that you can get a few new found friends before even arriving.

If you´re that way inclined then it´s certainly much more interesting than a satphone.

 

[Roberto]

Operator certificates

I do not know about the UK, but in quite a few countries, if one holds one of the pre-gmdss certificates (that is, one of the operator certificates that were issued before the SRC and LRC came into play), it is usually granted the privilege of operating a Marine SSB radio, of course NOT an HF DSC radio but a simple Marine HF radio, say like the ICOM M710 for example.

During a certain period, "VHF" certificates were issued without any mention of the frequencies, just for "Maritime stations less than 60W on boats less than 150grt"; the administrations said that 60W was to be considered as effective radiated power, which means that an onboard station with 100-150w PEP is well inside the limit... well I do not want to start a discussion about erp and pep but most administrations agreed on a 1:4 ratio, 60W erp allowed meant for them up to 240W pep allowed

Briefly, if one has an old VHF certificate (often granted without any exam) from France, Spain, Italy, etc he can legally operate any of the commonly available non-dsc HF radios

 

[Bosun Higgs]

You are probably right Roberto. The disappearance of the aircraft ham facility seems to be associated with the usual Euro harmonisation nonsense.

The pdf of the UK licence in the link above is even in languages other than English for heavens sake.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

If you´re that way inclined then it´s certainly much more interesting than a satphone.

The only time I found my SSB of any use was when cruising northern spain where the navtex service was lamentable. The UK maritime mobile net on 14303 could give me general weather forecasts for Biscay and seemed to be doing the same for boats in Greek waters.

However, on 14303 at the time of day used I could not receive the Greek boats and that was the problem. There did not seem to be a set of frequencies in the various bands for UK boats to be used according to conditions and time of day. And I've no real interest in DX swapping of call signs with someone in Venezuela for example - I wanted someone to chat with not just someone with limited English and an interest in radio.

There is the other issue of interference on a boat. I have always had problems with engine generated noise and that from the fridge and often electrical noise in harbours and marinas. What this meant was that the SSB only worked well when at anchor in the middle of nowhere

 

[Conachair]

The only time I found my SSB of any use was when cruising northern spain where the navtex service was lamentable. The UK maritime mobile net on 14303 could give me general weather forecasts for Biscay and seemed to be doing the same for boats in Greek waters.

However, on 14303 at the time of day used I could not receive the Greek boats and that was the problem. There did not seem to be a set of frequencies in the various bands for UK boats to be used according to conditions and time of day. And I've no real interest in DX swapping of call signs with someone in Venezuela for example - I wanted someone to chat with not just someone with limited English and an interest in radio.

There is the other issue of interference on a boat. I have always had problems with engine generated noise and that from the fridge and often electrical noise in harbours and marinas. What this meant was that the SSB only worked well when at anchor in the middle of nowhere

Offshore I would put a reciever up at the top end of essential items, weatherfax is a wonderful free service
As for interference, the fridge is a bugg*r but these days there´s wifi everywhere. People anchor in line of sight to big hotels for a reason If you need HF radio comms then it´s unlikely you´ll be in a busy harbour or marina.
One day I´ll be bored enough to do a spreadsheet to see how many years of sat phone airtime it would take to pay for the ham installation. Maybe not that many.

Though round Europe I think you´re right, why bother.

 

[RobbieW]

One day I´ll be bored enough to do a spreadsheet to see how many years of sat phone airtime it would take to pay for the ham installation. Maybe not that many.

Using ballpark figures:
SSB Hardware - £4000
Sat Phone Hardware - £1000
Sat Phone air time - £1/minute

Depends entirely on usage but I reckon you'd pay back in +- 3 years. There may also be annual costs for both solutions.

 

[Conachair]

Using ballpark figures:
SSB Hardware - £4000
Sat Phone Hardware - £1000
Sat Phone air time - £1/minute

Depends entirely on usage but I reckon you'd pay back in +- 3 years. There may also be annual costs for both solutions.

I´ve gone the ham route, icom 7000 & autotuner was 700ukp off ebay. Probably up to a grand plus with the bits and license.

I´ve had a satphone before, line rental was a bit of a killer, 34 quid a month for nothing. And getting anything delivered can be a very long haphazard process in a lot of countries. Believe there are better deals now.

Winlink email system is free, though they seem a very nice bunch doing important work for free so might send a donation.

The pure money side of it all depends really on how much time is spent offshore I suppose.

 

[RobbieW]

Thats why I used ballpark figures, everyones experience is different and there are many variables. If you dont have a ham licence and want email over SSB you need a subscription to one of the paid for services for instance - so similar to the monthly sat phone connection fee.

Pertinently to the discussion, I have an M710 - a marine transciever - it came with the boat along with a Pactor. I dont know if it had been 'opened up' for ham frequencies previously but the laptop has no trouble tuning it to ham frequencies for Winlink.

 

[haydude]

Using ballpark figures:
SSB Hardware - £4000
Sat Phone Hardware - £1000
Sat Phone air time - £1/minute

Depends entirely on usage but I reckon you'd pay back in +- 3 years. There may also be annual costs for both solutions.

Now that is a bit exaggerated ...

Assuming DIY installation:
Yaesu FT-857 (all bands including marine, not DSC, but who needs it?) on eBay between £500-£600, antenna tuner £200, isolated backstay £600, various wires, counterpoise etc. £60.

We are still around the satphone cost and with a satphone you cannot get free weatherfax or a marine network chat.

 

[maby]

Now that is a bit exaggerated ...

Assuming DIY installation:
Yaesu FT-857 (all bands including marine, not DSC, but who needs it?) on eBay between £500-£600, antenna tuner £200, isolated backstay £600, various wires, counterpoise etc. £60.

We are still around the satphone cost and with a satphone you cannot get free weatherfax or a marine network chat.

Indeed - in fact I think that, in order to spend four grand on ham radio gear, you would end up with something that would be far too large to install on most boats.

 

[KellysEye]

>Not sure that is strictly true - at least for VHF licences - the boat needs to have a licence - there is no requirement for qualifications to get the boat licence.

Yes you are correct. Sorry I misread what he said thinking he meant operator licences.

One strange thing is that when we renewed our ship licence they only showed SSB MF. I pointed out SSB is HF as well, don't know if they have changed it

 

[RobbieW]

Now that is a bit exaggerated ...

Apologies, my ballpark was for a new marine installation but does include something for aerial, pactor etc.. I'd be curious to see what ballpark a new ham installation would be.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Pertinently to the discussion, I have an M710 - a marine transciever - it came with the boat along with a Pactor. I dont know if it had been 'opened up' for ham frequencies previously but the laptop has no trouble tuning it to ham frequencies for Winlink.

The restrictions are always on the transmission and not on reception. Try tuning into a ham frequency and pressing the transmit button ( Briefly!) to see if it works or if it is still blocked.

Dont forget there is another issue for ham operating - using lsb on the lower bands. I dont know what facilities the 710 has - does it do lsb? And will it tune continuously ie with a large knob,

 

[RobbieW]

The restrictions are always on the transmission and not on reception. Try tuning into a ham frequency and pressing the transmit button ( Briefly!) to see if it works or if it is still blocked.

Dont forget there is another issue for ham operating - using lsb on the lower bands. I dont know what facilities the 710 has - does it do lsb? And will it tune continuously ie with a large knob,

Thanks, it transmits - I have a ham license and have used Winlink succesfully, just havent tried it for voice on either ham or marine frequencies yet. As I dont know the radio's history I'm kind of assuming its been modded. I'm not a long term ham, only did it to get access to Winlink.

Message to haydude, if you dont have an electronics/radio background the UK full license is hard going. You might want to look at getting a US license which I'm sure can be done in the UK.

 

[maby]

Apologies, my ballpark was for a new marine installation but does include something for aerial, pactor etc.. I'd be curious to see what ballpark a new ham installation would be.

Well, a compact multi-mode 100w HF transceiver new is somewhere between about £700 and a thousand. The rest is going to be similar to marine SSB gear - basically the same antenna and tuner - just set for different frequencies. For around £2500 you get a full desktop rig - I have an FT2000 - with lots of bells and whistles, but it is far too large and heavy for most boats.

 

[Conachair]

As there are a few hams here, does anyone use the 2m/70cm bands cruising?

I´m half thinking about an antenna up the mast, probably won´t bother though.

 

[maby]

As there are a few hams here, does anyone use the 2m/70cm bands cruising?

I´m half thinking about an antenna up the mast, probably won´t bother though.

I have a Yaesu FT817 on-board - low power and ok for chatting through local repeaters. Don't use it very often. The last time was probably about a year ago - I was alone on the boat in the marina one evening when it was blowing a horrible storm and I was chatting to a local through the repeater signing G8FXC/MM. I mentioned that the wind was very strong and the boat was getting bounced around a lot. Obviously, I didn't mention that I was tied up at a pontoon in a well equipped marina - the other station was on again the following morning calling me urgently and very relieved to hear me - apparently he had been on the point of calling the coastguard to report me missing in the southern North Sea!

 

[whipper_snapper]

As there are a few hams here, does anyone use the 2m/70cm bands cruising?

I´m half thinking about an antenna up the mast, probably won´t bother though.

No, but I tend to cruise in areas with such a low density of hams that VHF/UHF is no use at all. I did think about it when I was in South Africa; it could perhaps be a good way to get into a network of techy minded locals who might be able to help to find your way around a new area.

 

[ffiill]

Bottom line on ham radio prices-I have been monitoring Yaesu prices on e bay for last couple of years.
An old XTAL crystal controlled ft 77 ,ft 107 or similar can be had for less than £200-I did see an FT 77 go for about £130.
A synthesised FT 757 GX of which there are many examples you can get for under £250 ,£200 if you are lucky.
An FT840 mid to late 1990s for under £300.
A manual ATU should cost you no more than £100.
As for aerials if you can string a wire to the mast head running reasonably clear of your rigging it should suffice-no need for £600 insulated back stay-anyway think whips are cheaper and sturdier than insulated backstays.
As for ground (radials)Furuno reccommend wiring up all the metal bits in the boat including safety rails;engine;fuel and water tanks etc. An external expensive earth plate is not an absolute necessity but if you need one broze plate etc is far cheaper than a purpose cast one.
If you really want a very good new radio research the Vertex Standard(Yaesu) VX1700-you can pick one up in US if over there for about £500-120 watts-cost you a little more in UK.