Marine SSB and Ham HF/SSB

[Bilgediver]

thanks for the replies folks.

I have had HF scheds from Falmouth, Horta, Ponta Delgada and one or two other marinas ... however, as I cast my mind back ... always been at the end of the marina with clear sea to one side. Perhaps that'll make a difference?

At present, surrounded. A practical Faraday cage?

D

Don t you think it is a little irresponsible firing up your HF in a crowded marina. That is apart from the fact it is against the rules of most foreign and UK harbours.

How would you like it if a neighbouring yacht fired up his HF and then pushed it to max power as no one could hear him....Resulting in zapping and wrecking the front end of your receiver and or other on board electronics. It can happen.

You would be surprised no doubt at the RF burn that can be received when handling an antenna in the vicinity of another transmitting station. It shocked and burnt me. Just handling a length of flex for my short wave receiver. Luckily it was disconnected from the radio. Couldn t think what had happened initially. Mind you it was 1 KW RF transmitted from 50 feet away.

 

[jdc]

...

How would you like it if a neighbouring yacht fired up his HF and then pushed it to max power as no one could hear him....Resulting in zapping and wrecking the front end of your receiver and or other on board electronics. It can happen...

Have you a friend of a friend of a cousin to whom this has happened?

I design, or run companies which design, radios for comms. The radios, to be of merchantable quality and type approved, are simply never 'zapped' (whatever that means) by other legal transmitters. In fact if they were, they'd not pass the RTTE directive and not get CE marking, in which case they'd be illegal to sell anywhere in the EU. They may be interfered with (because they are poorly designed with inadequate screening or selectivity or linearity) but they won't be damaged by a legal amateur set.

 

[Bilgediver]

I believe in the US there is no requirement for qualification, just a license you get by filling in a form a bit like our VHF station (not operator) license.

Pete

That only applies to USA boats operating in their home waters. If leaving home waters they are supposed to get a licence.

 

[Bilgediver]

It's due to a flickering of such amazement that I decided to get an HF receiver. A Degen DE 1103, which seemed to be reasonably well thought of among cheapish portables according to The Internet. It comes with a longish length of wire as an antenna, which I duly hung out my bedroom window to a tree halfway down the garden.

What do I hear with it? Not a sausage. Well, not quite, a couple of foreign language broadcast stations and some community radio outfit from South London. I spent some time with it on scan (from 100-29999 Khz) and that's all I heard (ignoring the broadcast FM band). I found a list of "interesting" frequencies, eg amateur nets and stuff like the RAF's automatic weather broadcast; nothing. I looked up the frequency for the direction-finding beacon at Southampton Airport, and could just make it out through the noise once I knew what I was looking for - it's about two and half miles away.

Is this normal, or am I doing something wrong?

Pete

Definitely something wrong....You should be getting blasted out by american....middle eastern....indian...chineese commercial stations....

Sounds like your radio is deaf.. do a google search for lists of radio frequencies...

You should hear some of these...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/schedules/frequencies/

 

[Bi111ion]

I know this is an old thread but what do other people find about using an SSb in a marina, anyone else find they cant get a signal out and cant here much marine traffic either?

 

[Fenderr]

Using ballpark figures:
SSB Hardware - £4000
Sat Phone Hardware - £1000
Sat Phone air time - £1/minute

Depends entirely on usage but I reckon you'd pay back in +- 3 years. There may also be annual costs for both solutions.

It's not just a financial cost equation. If I make an ocean passage, I take a satphone (Iridium 9555). I hold a Class A Amateur licence and use an FT879D with remote antenna tuner, and although I've never bothered with the LRC I can operate a Marine radio in an emergency (no one's going to criticise you if you put out a shout in extremis whether or not you have an LRC).

But the sat phone can connect me directly to Falmouth MRCC, immediately, and without having to tune the set, check frequencies, tune the antenna, and hope that propagation is OK. Yes, the Sat Phone air time costs whilst the Amateur air time is free. But I use my Amateur set for leisure, and the Sat Phone for emergencies. It's not an 'either / or' situation.

 

[KellysEye]

>No overlap. The ham band is 14.000 to 14.350 mc/s and the marine SSB are on either side of this at 12.3 or 16.5mc/s.

Ham bands run from 2kHZ to 26 kHZ plus as do marine bands. The only difference is that marine SSB is on Upper Side Band and Ham is on Lower Side band. For a marine SSB you need a Long Range Certificate. You can listen to Ham frequencies, some have marine weather forecasts, but you can't transmit unless you have a ham licence, they use their call signs. Marine SSB users use their boat names. As said Marine SSB is used by long distance sailor for ocean nets, marina nets, weather and boat to boat calls. No coastal boats carry it.

 

[Bi111ion]

There are specific overlaps between Marine and Amateur and other users of the MF HF spectrum.

For example in the UK Band plan 1.850-2.000 MHz is available for amateurs but "Secondary. Available on the basis of non-interference to other services inside or outside the UK", while for example 1.883 MHz is an operating frequency for Belfast Coastguard and there are numerous other marine coast stations around the world
using operating frequencies in that band. Similarly 3.5-3.8 is shared between hams and the 80m Marine MF band.

Hams by convention use LSB below 10MHz and USB for SSB HF above 10MHz, but it is only a convention. Marine is always USB for MF and HF voice communications.

 

[GHA]

I know this is an old thread but what do other people find about using an SSb in a marina, anyone else find they cant get a signal out and cant here much marine traffic either?

Not so sure about marine SSB but Ham is hit and miss in marinas, often miss. I've had more success with Ham digital modes, quite often psk31 will get in/out and I've had winlink connect for email from St kats, but generally away from a nice anchorage HF radio is disappointing.

 

[KellysEye]

>Don t you think it is a little irresponsible firing up your HF in a crowded marina. That is apart from the fact it is against the rules of most foreign and UK harbours. How would you like it if a neighbouring yacht fired up his HF and then pushed it to max power as no one could hear him....Resulting in zapping and wrecking the front end of your receiver and or other on board electronics. It can happen.

Wrong. Nothing happens when you transmit using an SSB radio from a marina it's just the signal isn't very good because of all the masts around, reception is fine.

>You would be surprised no doubt at the RF burn that can be received when handling an antenna in the vicinity of another transmitting station. It shocked and burnt me. Just handling a length of flex for my short wave receiver. Luckily it was disconnected from the radio. Couldn t think what had happened initially. Mind you it was 1 KW RF transmitted from 50 feet away

SSB's are 150 watts, not 1Kw, and you can light a cigarette on the aerial above an on insulator or if you hold it it will cook your hand from inside. An SSB receiver has no current in it's aerial and thus cannot burn anything.

 

[SimonJ]

I know this is an old thread but what do other people find about using an SSb in a marina, anyone else find they cant get a signal out and cant here much marine traffic either?

It is often difficult to send/receive in a marina or busy anchorage. Typically in Jolly Harbour Marina, Falmouth Hbr Antigua, Bequia, St Thomas etc some folk have a problem. Similarly if there are cruise ships around. I do not understand why this should be the case. I only note that I, with a basic rig using a lower power opened up ham radio with max 100w output combined with home made rope antenna and copper foil earthing, have rarely had a significant problem.

 

[Fenderr]

I only note that I, with ... copper foil earthing, have rarely had a significant problem.

And therein lies so many of the issues people have with HF/MF on a yacht. RF Earthing. Copper tape or proper earthing strip needed to connect to a really good earth. And a good antenna matching unit. Otherwise noise, poor performance, and general frustration result.

 

[KellysEye]

> Copper tape or proper earthing strip needed to connect to a really good earth. And a good antenna matching unit. Otherwise noise, poor performance, and general frustration result.

You are right about the importance of the ground and ATU. Metal boats have the best signals because the hulls are the ground. The only better signal is a Cat with copper foil glassed in the bilges of both hulls when the boat is built, we've only met one American cat with that.