Marine engines and white road diesel

pheran said:
Having run a variety of boat engines on road going white diesel over a ten year period, I have to say that the only real difference I noticed was that the lubricating oil seemed to stay a lot cleaner for longer. I can't help feeling people are looking for problems where none exist.
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:-) undoubtedly they are. Quite simply, a large fraction of the boating community does not want to switch because it will plug the current loophole that is exploited for semi-legal tax evasion. They sieze on every reason under the sun why we cannot use white road diesel as ammunition.
 
pheran said:
Having run a variety of boat engines on road going white diesel over a ten year period, I have to say that the only real difference I noticed was that the lubricating oil seemed to stay a lot cleaner for longer. I can't help feeling people are looking for problems where none exist.
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This may well turn out to be the case and I hope so.
However it is surely through questions and discussions on these fora and elsewhere that these problems get ironed out.
 
Little Five said:
This may well turn out to be the case and I hope so.
However it is surely through questions and discussions on these fora and elsewhere that these problems get ironed out.
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It's very difficult to prove a negative. I don't think I have come across a single proven case of a serious engine problem that can be attributed to the use of road diesel, but that does not prove that there never will be one.
 
maby said:
It's very difficult to prove a negative. I don't think I have come across a single proven case of a serious engine problem that can be attributed to the use of road diesel, but that does not prove that there never will be one.
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This topic is drifting in the same direction as the MMGW discussion.
Its a wait and see scenario.
 
Guapa said:
With all due respect - but that was a 'long' time ago.
The world - engines and FAME - have moved on since then.
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Sorry to differ, but I have a Volvo Penta 2003; it was new in 1989. It is in good running order, and from what I hear from other people, most of these engines still work perfectly well - a 20 year old engine is middle aged, no more. I'd certainly hope that there's another 20 years life in mine, if I take care of it.

Incidentally, I do own a modern diesel engine - a VW TDI. And the filler cap prominently says NOT to use biodiesel in it. OF course I have no choice - but even modern diesels don't like too high a proportion of FAME,
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Sorry to differ, but I have a Volvo Penta 2003; it was new in 1989. It is in good running order, and from what I hear from other people, most of these engines still work perfectly well - a 20 year old engine is middle aged, no more. I'd certainly hope that there's another 20 years life in mine, if I take care of it.

Incidentally, I do own a modern diesel engine - a VW TDI. And the filler cap prominently says NOT to use biodiesel in it. OF course I have no choice - but even modern diesels don't like too high a proportion of FAME,
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+1 for that!
Have a 2003 too and it's going strong - hopefully for some years to come.

All we really want is the Government to create a situation where we can buy appropriate specification diesel that will keep us out of trouble.
That is mechanical trouble and with Johnny Foreigner!
White marine diesel seems to be a way to go.
 
Gwylan said:
+1 for that!
Have a 2003 too and it's going strong - hopefully for some years to come.

All we really want is the Government to create a situation where we can buy appropriate specification diesel that will keep us out of trouble.
That is mechanical trouble and with Johnny Foreigner!
White marine diesel seems to be a way to go.
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But when you go and visit Johnny Foreigner he will give you road diesel anyway.
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Incidentally, I do own a modern diesel engine - a VW TDI. And the filler cap prominently says NOT to use biodiesel in it. OF course I have no choice - but even modern diesels don't like too high a proportion of FAME,
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The note on your filler cap refers to use of B30. VW approve of EN 590 fuel up to 7% FAME and in reality you are only actually getting around 3% in your EN590 fuel. At this FAME level system cares squat all provided filters changed in timely manner. Also remember we cannot compare vehicles and boat propulsion simply because in a vehicle engine is now part of a propulsion system, for example running with lube oil on high side can end in tears.

Good news is that Bosch who source around 80% of all vehicle fuel systems have drawn a line in the sand, 7% and no more. Currently all FAME is sourced from Germany there has been plenty of blood up the walls over pressure from the German Green politicians.
 
Latestarter1 said:
At this FAME level system cares squat all provided filters changed in timely manner.
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So: I have a one year-old Beta 25 which typically does no more than 75 - 100 hours running pa, a clean 90l tank which I keep topped up, tap off quarterly what tiny amounts of water/crud might be in tank bottom, and change the primary fuel filter annually.

Should I care squat all what juice I fill with?
 
I don't know how true this may be.. BUt.. I have been told that white diesel is more prone to waxing if left for a long time?

Obviously most white fuel is used within a few weeks if not days... Whereas red fuel is bought by farmers who leave it in their tank for up to 12 months.. In consequence the fuel companies adjust the mixture so red fuel stores better.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Not necessarily. Cruising Association has polled the Baltic counties - some do FAME, some don't. Mostly it seems the more boat-oriented countries aren't offering FAMEd diesel at the waterside.
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For most visiting Johnny foreigner is more likely to be France and points south, and many places the fuel is overtly road fuel from my direct experience. Interestingly all the places I topped up the cost was the same as motorists payed, there was no marine/marina premium.
 
Little Five said:
Old bangers? Steady on Guapa. We don't all have the wherewithall to find 4000-6000 to re-engine. a small boat. If you live in a different world, good luck to you.
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Agree and does anyone ever work out just how many road miles equivalent your engine has done?-useful because we all have a good idea about high milage road engines.
My Merc OM636 engine is 33 years old-based on engine wear-no oil use per 100 hours ;good oil pressure combined with a guess on in commission useage and allowing for periods of lay up I reckon its got about 70,000 equivalent on the clock.
An average sort of 2 litre ish four cylinder Indirect diesel running at about 2000 rpm would give you about 50 mph in a car.
Oh and it was designed post ww2 to run on just about anything.
 
I have experience of Spanish White Diesel (ex marina) reacting with the fibreglass fuel tanks and blocking the fuel filters at the rate of 3 a day in a 5 year old Oyster 62. Potentially debillitating if not enough spares are carried. I conclude GRP fuel tanks are bad news. How common they are I do not know.
Re earlier comments on fuel bug (MBG) - this has been a common problem for 40 years. It is not a new phenomenon but will get yet more frequent by the sound of things.
 
I have just had my Freelander TD4 with 121000 miles on the clock in to get a fuel problem sorted at a specialist diesel injection company. They refurbed the HP pump as the seals were shot. When asked if supermarket fuel with 15% bio could have been the cause the were non-committal but didn't rule it out. When asked about using road fuel in general in an old marine diesel they said it would cope far better than a modern engine with a common rail setup as these were designed to run on pure diesel whereas the old plodder would run on almost anything.
 
rhumlady said:
I have just had my Freelander TD4 with 121000 miles on the clock in to get a fuel problem sorted at a specialist diesel injection company. They refurbed the HP pump as the seals were shot. When asked if supermarket fuel with 15% bio could have been the cause the were non-committal but didn't rule it out. When asked about using road fuel in general in an old marine diesel they said it would cope far better than a modern engine with a common rail setup as these were designed to run on pure diesel whereas the old plodder would run on almost anything.
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so lets get this straight
we have modern common rail engines that wont cope with bio fuel :eek:
 
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