Marina want three months notice to leave

[jrudge]

Is 3 months notice really that unreasonable ? An assured shorthold requires 2 months so arguing 3 months ( which was in the contract you signed in black and white and not questioned at the time ) is unreasonable I doubt would get you very far in court if it ever came to that. My kids school requires a terms notice or you loosecyour ( 1term ) deposit c

6 months. 12 months. Probably.

I can fully understand why it is irritating and that it would be nice if they agreed to waive it but a deal is a deal.

If someone came on here saying someone rented my dock and has now left without giving the agreed notice what would be said?

 

[bedouin]

Is 3 months notice really that unreasonable ? An assured shorthold requires 2 months so arguing 3 months ( which was in the contract you signed in black and white and not questioned at the time ) is unreasonable I doubt would get you very far in court if it ever came to that.

It would be an easy win - the guidance on the unfair terms in consumer contracts gives a very similar example of a term that is unfair. I can't imagine the Marina trying to argue that the official advice is wrong on that point.

 

[sorabain]

It would be an easy win - the guidance on the unfair terms in consumer contracts gives a very similar example of a term that is unfair. I can't imagine the Marina trying to argue that the official advice is wrong on that point.

I would hesitate to describe any legal conflict as "easy". The time and stress incurred may make it a rather pyrrhic victory. I'd approach the marina honestly and see if they'd waive the extra month, but if not just take the hit and chalk it up to experience.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Is 3 months notice really that unreasonable ? An assured shorthold requires 2 months so arguing 3 months ( which was in the contract you signed in black and white and not questioned at the time ) is unreasonable I doubt would get you very far in court if it ever came to that. My kids school requires a terms notice or you loosecyour ( 1term ) deposit c

6 months. 12 months. Probably.

I can fully understand why it is irritating and that it would be nice if they agreed to waive it but a deal is a deal.

If someone came on here saying someone rented my dock and has now left without giving the agreed notice what would be said?

+1

 

[bedouin]

I would hesitate to describe any legal conflict as "easy". The time and stress incurred may make it a rather pyrrhic victory. I'd approach the marina honestly and see if they'd waive the extra month, but if not just take the hit and chalk it up to experience.

The point is there is no way the Marina would bother to bring the case when what they are doing is clearly unlawful. It is as close to an open and shut case as you can get. The OFT have determined that such clauses are unfair and no small claims judge is going to overturn that.

 

[jrudge]

It would be an easy win - the guidance on the unfair terms in consumer contracts gives a very similar example of a term that is unfair. I can't imagine the Marina trying to argue that the official advice is wrong on that point.

I did look and could not see an example like this but it is says 3 months is unreasonable then so be it. A link would be useful for future reference.

 

[bedouin]

I did look and could not see an example like this but it is says 3 months is unreasonable then so be it. A link would be useful for future reference.

Group 8 of Annex A to the OFT guidance on Unfair Terms in consumer contract regulations. Actually technically I see that guidance is old because the law has changed since then but unlikely to make a difference

 

[jrudge]

Group 8 of Annex A to the OFT guidance on Unfair Terms in consumer contract regulations. Actually technically I see that guidance is old because the law has changed since then but unlikely to make a difference

Original term
This agreement shall commence on the connection date and shall continue for the 'minimum period' of 12 months and thereafter until terminated by no less than three months' notice in writing given by either party to the other. Such notice to be given not before the expiry of the minimum period.
Action taken
New term: This agreement is for a minimum period of 12 months ... it may be terminated by giving one month's notice, which commences on or after the end of the initial 11 months.

To save others looking.

They do warn ( for all their examples)

The listing is based on, and illustrates the effect of, the Grey List as it appeared in Schedule 2 to the UTCCRs. It is important to stress that there was at no stage any finding in law as to fairness or otherwise of any of the terms listed, only an administrative decision by the OFT that the original term appeared to raise concerns as to fairness, and subsequently, in the light of the action taken by the business, that no further enforcement action was warranted at that time.

so if someone was daft enough to be up for a fight they still could.

I am surprised a period as short as 3 months is unreasonable, but it is useful to know.

 

[henryf]

Oh god, here we go - armchair Barristers and I'm going to jump right in

The example quoted above appears to be for a service like electricity billing, internet provision etc. That being the case the fact you're hooked up to Wensleydale Internet doesn't prevent others from doing the same, so to put an unreasonably long cancellation period on the contract is unfair.

This is a very different scenario to the point where I would be looking at commercial property contracts as my base point. Whilst you are on the mooring it can't be let out to anyone else just like a commercial property. Notice is required when you want to hand in the keys to allow the landlord time to arrange another tenant. It is standard practice to require a minimum notice period when you want to terminate a lease.

I think you are trying to make something fit your scenario that isn't intended to.

Henry

 

[Portofino]

Oh god, here we go - armchair Barristers and I'm going to jump right in

The example quoted above appears to be for a service like electricity billing, internet provision etc. That being the case the fact you're hooked up to Wensleydale Internet doesn't prevent others from doing the same, so to put an unreasonably long cancellation period on the contract is unfair.

This is a very different scenario to the point where I would be looking at commercial property contracts as my base point. Whilst you are on the mooring it can't be let out to anyone else just like a commercial property. Notice is required when you want to hand in the keys to allow the landlord time to arrange another tenant. It is standard practice to require a minimum notice period when you want to terminate a lease.

I think you are trying to make something fit your scenario that isn't intended to.

Henry

Yeh , I’ve never heard of 3 months or what ever notice being a problem in the property leases market , both commercial and others like farms , shoots , and BLT .
In fact I have as a landlord in some contracts drawn up in away to have huge bulk payments like a one off for 12/12 , with no refund if the tenant bails out early .
Farm tenancies can be as long as 5 years whereby that’s the minimum commitment , so they are locked in .
Crop fails = tuff . Payment terms as agreed .

Most levers abide by the terms of the lease , they can read and the expectation is they fully understood what was agreed / negotiated . If it’s a biggie it’s done through there solicitors and nobody bats an eyelid about the 3 / 12 notice period .
Standard lease agreements drawn up by somebody from the law society act as templates .

I don,t buy into this 1 month right to terminate crap , in the commercial lease sector .

3/12 in the commercial sector is the minimum time to arrange a void free changeover imho .

Not wanting to sound hard , my advice to the OP next time read the small print of what you signed / agreed .

 

[Blue Sunray]

Oh god, here we go - armchair Barristers and I'm going to jump right in

The example quoted above appears to be for a service like electricity billing, internet provision etc. That being the case the fact you're hooked up to Wensleydale Internet doesn't prevent others from doing the same, so to put an unreasonably long cancellation period on the contract is unfair.

This is a very different scenario to the point where I would be looking at commercial property contracts as my base point. Whilst you are on the mooring it can't be let out to anyone else just like a commercial property. Notice is required when you want to hand in the keys to allow the landlord time to arrange another tenant. It is standard practice to require a minimum notice period when you want to terminate a lease.

I think you are trying to make something fit your scenario that isn't intended to.

Henry

Thank you, someone who has a clue (++) and slightly more legal nouse than one gets from watching daytime TV and google, how refreshing.

 

[BruceK]

Another armchair barrister here, where as I believe the OP is bound by his contract and agree with Henry one should look to property I would differ from commercial in favour of residential and that is one month.

 

[markc]

I don't think the contract is that unreasonable. We have to give 6 week's notice for our 4 year old daughter's Stage Coach lessons and we're on a termly rolling contract.

As others have said, this is best resolved by a friendly chat with the marina manager. Maybe if they hold you to the notice period and you're not there, perhaps they can comp you a bunch of visitor stays FoC?

 

[Portofino]

Another armchair barrister here, where as I believe the OP is bound by his contract and agree with Henry one should look to property I would differ from commercial in favour of residential and that is one month.

The 1 month residential notice period is not some over arching thing that’s come down from ofcom or some other consumer rights organisations ,it’s from the landlords so a bad tenant ( define how you wish ) can be booted out ASAP .

Cuts both ways .

Again the property owner surley has to have the whip hand - at the mo , unless you start listening to Corbyn

 

[jrudge]

Yeh , I’ve never heard of 3 months or what ever notice being a problem in the property leases market , both commercial and others like farms , shoots , and BLT .
In fact I have as a landlord in some contracts drawn up in away to have huge bulk payments like a one off for 12/12 , with no refund if the tenant bails out early .
Farm tenancies can be as long as 5 years whereby that’s the minimum commitment , so they are locked in .
Crop fails = tuff . Payment terms as agreed .

Most levers abide by the terms of the lease , they can read and the expectation is they fully understood what was agreed / negotiated . If it’s a biggie it’s done through there solicitors and nobody bats an eyelid about the 3 / 12 notice period .
Standard lease agreements drawn up by somebody from the law society act as templates .

I don,t buy into this 1 month right to terminate crap , in the commercial lease sector .

3/12 in the commercial sector is the minimum time to arrange a void free changeover imho .

Not wanting to sound hard , my advice to the OP next time read the small print of what you signed / agreed .

My view as per my post is that 3 months is not that out of order, I don't know the context of the example quoted by another poster that I then pasted for the simplicity of others, however ... do bear in mind yours and Henry's examples are mostly commercial in nature and this is not in the scope of consumer protection / unfair terms.

The ones I do know of are school fees, assured shorthold ( consumers) and Marc C example.

The thing seems to be is the notice period reasonable as a pre estimate of losses - so in Jeremy language the notice period should be reasonable in relation to the time taken to find a new Tennant so as to avoid an empty berth without putting you on the hook for a long time just because they can't find someone.

There have also been threads on here that get very complex ( can I get my deposit back) which again relate to is the loss of a deposit a fair representation of the expected loss.

So at the end of the day what is reasonable notice to a marina that will reasonably allow them to find another berth holder? And that I suspect is it depends on where it is and to some extent the time of year. If the marina has a waiting list then the time to fill will be a few phone calls and the time for the new punter to sign up.

I assume the reasonable time expected to rent a house out was deemed as 2 months - hence the assured shorthold notice period.

Would it be reasonable for it to take longer to rent a marina berth? Honestly - probably not.

 

[swifty]

If Castle Marinas charge the 3 months, they are certainly not reinvesting the extra income on their Marinas. Buckden Marina is turning into a wasteland, full of potholes and nowhere to park car other than in a puddle and the safety barrier has been stuck up for years. Generally the marina is very tired with no investment.

 

[Poignard]

...
As others have said, this is best resolved by a friendly chat with the marina manager. FoC?

That's certainly the best place to start.

 

[jrudge]

That is I suspect more powerful than the notice period

Unilateral and non advised changes to a contract will be an unfair term

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/unfair-...s-full-guide#changing-the-terms-of-a-contract

See variation section


Given they also have the 10% sale commissions in their contact I would refer the whole contract to Trading Standards and the Consumer Markets Authority as they seem to be living in the Stone Age.

I refer things to the financial ombudsman from time to time ( as did my dad). I mostly win.

 

[bedouin]

My view as per my post is that 3 months is not that out of order, I don't know the context of the example quoted by another poster that I then pasted for the simplicity of others, however ... do bear in mind yours and Henry's examples are mostly commercial in nature and this is not in the scope of consumer protection / unfair terms.

A 3 month notice period is not in itself necessarily unfair - in fact in annual berthing contracts it is not unusual to have no notice period at all.

What is regarded as unfair is the automatic renewal of a fixed term contract with an unreasonable notice period. So if you don't want the annual renewal you can give them 1 month's notice.

The OP is clearly surprised by the notice period he is being asked to give - and that is exactly what the rules are supposed to prevent.

However in 7 weeks time we'll be out of EU and then you can lobby your MP to change the rules if you like

 

[Poignard]

My annual contract, with a French yard, is automatically renewed on 1st January unless either party gives at least two months notice of non-renewal.

If I want to end the contract during the year, I must give two months notice and I will received a pro-rata refund of the annual fee.

This doesn't seem unreasonable to me although I would prefer it if I could leave without giving any notice and they couldn't chuck me out without 12 months notice.