Manoverboard

Sailfree

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I noticed on the recent Atlantic Rally Crossing thread the question of Manoverboard recovery was raised. As I sail frequently with only my partner I had thought that if I was overboard she would bring the boat close to me (to windward) throw me a line, I tie my end to the lifejacket harness point (or a bowline round my chest) and she would tie the other end to either the spinnaker halyard/Pole uphaul or second genoa halyard the using the winch hoist me out of the water, midships in a sea or walk me to the boarding ladder at the stern in a calm. I appreciate the preference of lifting out with raised legs and proprietary lifting systems but on the basis of whats available on our and most other boats and "better out than in" thats the current plan. Have others got any experience or better recommendations. In our case I am 83kg without clothes and she is 5ft 3ins, 65kg and fit.

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jamesjermain

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Practice

What you describe would work but have you practiced it. Could your partner bring the boat back to you? does she know how without using the engine (props and people in the water don't often go together well). Have you thought about keeping the person in the water in sight - its amazing how quickly you can lose sight of them. 5mmediately chucking over a lifebuoy/danbuoy and a light at night is essential. Have you thought of investing in one of the personal location beacons?
There are a number of proprietory mob recoivery devices on the market of which the best in my experience and in tests carried out by YM, is the Tribuckle. However, al these devices depend on having it on deck and set up in the first place with someone who is practices in its use.
The problem you might find with your suggested method is that a bowline round the chest can slip over the arms, particularly if the casualty is otherwise injured or unconscious (you must think about this eventuality as well). It also hurts like hell, but that will be the last of your worries under the cirumstances.

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graham

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Pelican clips or lanyards that can be cut with a knife kept sharp and handy are needed to quickly get rid of the guard wires.

Ithink that the theory of lifting people horizontally to lessen the strain on their heart is not all that practical on a shorthanded yacht,

the emphasis has to be on a rapid recovery back on board .

Whatever hoisting system you use it needs to be practiced to find any problems,either with a volunteer or second best a weight made up of 5 gallon oil drums or similar ,not quite filled with water, tied together to make a similar weight.

You see school boats practising bringing the boat back to a MOB but rarely do you see anyone practice hauling a couple of hundred weight of panicking human back on board.

Best of luck ,if you do a practise let us know how it went.

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Sailfree

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Re: Practice

Getting boat back - we both did it during during day skipper course and I subsequently for yachtmaster but good point time to practise again and singlehanded. We both always carry a pack of miniflares during channel crossings and night sailing. Got MOB button on helm position chartplotter. I agree extra equipment is desirable but for most people on a limited budget the ideal is rarely possible hence my question. It also appears to me that there are two types of long distance sailers 1) those that can afford everything and do it 2) those that plan to do it within the best alocation of a limited budget - but going is the priority and a third type always talk about it doing it once they have bought this or that. I am trying not to become one of the third type! but approach the challange in a sensible way with safety in mind.

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TheBoatman

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Re: Practice

Basic rules:
1. Try to prevent MOB situations.
2. Always use jackstays , especially at night.
3. Invest in some PLB's and give them to crews
4. Wherever possible get crews to wear auto gas jackets.
5. Always have ready a danbuoy fitted with light to cast over the side immediately after MOB.
6. Invest in some of the new Paines Wessex waterproof combined day/night flares and fit them into the jackets.
7. Remember that MOB buttons only tell you where they "were" not where they are?
8. Call CG and tell them your position, that you have a MOB and that you won't be able to carry on a convo with them as your going out on deck. Make sure they understand.
9. Fit retroflective tape to jackets and oilies because it really shows up at night if you fire a white para flare.
10. Finally, practice MOB drill.


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vyv_cox

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Try it!

The dimensions of my wife and myself are not too different from yours. Last summer we tried our man-overboard recovery systems on a hot, windless day at anchor. There was absolutely no way that she could hoist me on board with a halyard and winch, nor, for that matter with the mainsheet hauled by a winch until we had experimented to obtain correct lead with some snatch-blocks. When it came to her hauling me out, using a specially padded lifting strop, I would have suffocated if it had not been for my ability to give a good deal of assistance.

As the result of this very useful exercise we are now planning a better method, probably a parbuckle..

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Sybarite

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Re: Practice

Many years ago I did a test with my two eldest, youngish teenagers at the time and, I thought, competent boat handhandlers. On a lightish day and without prior warning I threw a fender overboard and asked them to consider that it was me. It took them 45 minutes to recover it.

A sobering thought for all - especially what would have happened in bad weather at night time?

John

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Mirelle

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Prevention

I am absolutely sure that my 5'2" wife and 8 year old son would never get me back aboard even if they could get the boat back to me (also doubtful).

Since I singlehand a good deal, the situation is really no different.

We don't have lifelines but we do have jackstays and harnesses which are worn, with lifejackets, by everyone and anyone at all times at sea and by children whenever they are on deck, period.

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Dave99

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Re: Prevention

DSC VHF - hit the distress button and specify MOB??
If connected to a GPS coastguard can work out drift etc. of casualty and therefore launch an immediate search, if you lose sight of casualty/ cant get them back on board they will be well on their way. If you succeed in recovery you can simply cancel the distress.

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Mirelle

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Re: Prevention

Yes, of course. But I suspect the lifeboat would be looking for a corpse.

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kilkerr1

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As a newbie, a MOB situation is definitely at the forefront of my thinking. I was just wondering tho', all the talk of what happens when someone's gone overboard (which is essential of course) - why doesn't everyone use safety lines, so they're fastened to the boat and can't actually 'fall off'? Isn't the best way of dealing with MOB not to let it happen in the first place? I've been told time and time again that prevention is better than...you know the stuff. Or am I missing something and everyone is already safely clipped on with triple elasticated lines and lines don't make any difference..?


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bedouin

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I don't believe it is possible to rig your jackstays so that it is impossible to fall in - although they help their main purpose is to keep you attached to the boat if you do happen to fall.

So even if you always were a harness you may still be in the situation of having to recover someone from the water, so the problems of hauling them out still remains

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beneteau_305_553

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I have rigged a jackstay that goes down the centre line of the boat and I always clip on when out of the cockpit. You soon get used to moving around with it on.

The tape from the harness to the jackstay ( safetyline? ) is quite short but still possible for a body to be washed over the side so recovery is still a problem. I have tried being recovered and found it very difficult and painfull!

I found that best to have harness inside jacket fitted tight to the chest and the safetyline out from the top of the jacket. (I don't have combined lifejackets with harness)

Its still difficult to attach a spare halyard to the lifeline as the lifeline is so tight between the jackstay and the harness of the body being towed and bouncing about by the waves. Usually the halyard is not long enough to attach to the harness directly and trying to attach another line to the harness is almost impossible as the body is so low in the water. Can end up with both people washed off the boat!

The load on the halyard was enormous and probably impossible for one small crew to winch up a heavy person.

Has anyone got an answer?





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tome

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I think you're spot on. Reading these posts, and from personal experience including a fast craft rescue course it is imperative to take every precaution to prevent a MOB. From a low freeboard rescue craft a casualty can be rolled via a parbuckle net into the boat. Even so, it takes a huge effort from 2 crew. This won't work on a high freeboard pleasure craft and I'm highly sceptical of any of the methods suggested (sorry all!).

In a situation where single or short handed this means effectively being permanently short tethered. There's no way around this unless you have sufficient practised crew and recovery systems onboard to be able to assume a likely recovery.

Most of us ignore this on occasions, sailing 'outside the box' but we should face the reality that a safe MOB recovery is not necessarily a likely outcome, especially if faced with an injured or unconscious casualty.

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TonyD

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I recently spent a very enjoyable weekend racing with a fleet of Sunsail's Sunfast 37s, but was horrified to find that the "lifejackets" provided carried the notice "Oral Inflation Only". In other words, you have to blow them up when you fall in the water - no gas inflation. Given the distinct possibility of a crewman being knocked off the boat and entering the water unconsious, I'm amazed this meets the safety requirements for commercial operation of these vessels.

.....or am I being overly critical?

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MainlySteam

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Re: Prevention

Andrew - I am the same as you (but without any children on board). Even if my wife could get the boat back to me (doubtful given both ability and keeping me in sight) she would never get me on board. Our lowest freeboard is also 1.2 meters.

I recall (Sydney Hobart, I think) a man overboard at night stating that he could always see the boat but the boat could never see him so the best thing the boat could have done is stop searching and let him swim to it (he was actually, very luckily, rescued by a helicopter diverted from another rescue which found him with its lights).

So I think that perhaps the best thing in our circumstances is just expect the boat to be stopped and that one is capable of making it back - that after doing everything possible to ensure one does not go over in the first place (they say "treat the deck as if it was the top of a 10 story building"). We also have a fixed fold down stern ladder extending below water line (deployable from the water) and a portable side ladder if sea conditions allow.

Just to forstall any possible lecture about how one's partner should be able to handle the boat back to rescue one, sometimes for health or other reasons that is not possible, even though they may enjoy cruising very much. We do not let it interfere with our sailing.

John

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TheBoatman

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Re: Prevention

It seems to me that you have already given up i.e. if you go over board then your dead? because 5'2" wife and child can't get you back. If however you read my post, if you have auto gas jacket, PLB and flare and your wife makes the call. you may just stand a chance. All you have to do is survive until other (RNLI) help arrives. So on that score you have to consider how you will achieve that, maybe a floatation suit, which increases your survival time by 4. Maybe you tell wife to throw you a line and then let you sit there until help arrives.



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MainlySteam

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Re: Try it!

Vyv - I have not tried this lifting a person from the water, but it works for other heavy lifts. If you are already faced with having to rig blocks to get someone from the water as you say, then if your windlass has a powered warping drum that may be able to used.

Like all things, still suffers from needing time to set up when time is least available.

John

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tome

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Tony

There's 2 sides to this. Automatic jackets can go off with a bit of spray (believe me!) which can cause problems during training. The Hanmar hydrostatic release LJs are much better in this respect, but cost more. So the charter companies provide the minimum.

Short answer is to invest in your personal LJ/harness which will cost you around £160. Go for a 150N LJ with Hanmar release and built-in harness, spray hood and light. Make sure it has thigh straps, and add a 3 point safety line. Learn it's features so that you can operate it blindfold. After all, you are worth it!

Regards
Tom

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tome

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Re: Prevention

Boatman

<you may just stand a chance> doesn't quite have the ring of a racing certainty, and would you happen to be wearing your flotation suit when you went over?

Perhaps best to avoid the situation, as Mirelle suggests?

Regards
Tom

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