Man Overboard System - Worth it or gimmicks?

[Cardo]

We are a two handed small sailing vessel that's currently cruising around the Med. A set up which I'm sure is very common. We're intending to be doing various overnight and multi-day passages during our voyages, which means one person will be on watch whilst the other is likely to be in bed.

With the trips we've done so far, our biggest concern has been "what if the other person falls off the boat and I sleep through it?" If it happens at the beginning of a two hour shift, you could be well away from them before you realise they're gone!

We already carry personal PLB's with us, so that's something, but it would be nice to have something that will alert the remaining person on board that a person has come off the boat. I've seen the AIS alert jobbies that look a lot like PLB's. Whilst this would probably work, they're a little on the big side, and carrying a PLB and one of them is just too much and will likely just be left on the chart table.

However, I've long wondered about these Man Overboard systems, such as Raymarine's one - http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=715
You only need a small RF tag that you can attach to yourself or your lifejacket and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt and all that.
They're not cheap, but the initial kit is around the cost of two AIS beacon thingies.

Has anyone used one of these sets, and if so, what did you think?

Are they worth the £££, or are they just a gimmick?

 

[knuterikt]

We are a two handed small sailing vessel that's currently cruising around the Med. A set up which I'm sure is very common. We're intending to be doing various overnight and multi-day passages during our voyages, which means one person will be on watch whilst the other is likely to be in bed.

With the trips we've done so far, our biggest concern has been "what if the other person falls off the boat and I sleep through it?" If it happens at the beginning of a two hour shift, you could be well away from them before you realise they're gone!

We already carry personal PLB's with us, so that's something, but it would be nice to have something that will alert the remaining person on board that a person has come off the boat. I've seen the AIS alert jobbies that look a lot like PLB's. Whilst this would probably work, they're a little on the big side, and carrying a PLB and one of them is just too much and will likely just be left on the chart table.

However, I've long wondered about these Man Overboard systems, such as Raymarine's one - http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=715
You only need a small RF tag that you can attach to yourself or your lifejacket and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt and all that.
They're not cheap, but the initial kit is around the cost of two AIS beacon thingies.

Has anyone used one of these sets, and if so, what did you think?

Are they worth the £££, or are they just a gimmick?

I have not used any of these systems yet.
I have an AIS transceiver installed already but my plotter with the current SW version does not support AIS sart.
I know that you can get a AIS Sart alarm device installed on the boat - it taps AIS data fro an AIS receiver.

The best precaution is to stay clipped on to the boat at all times when on deck alone - and yes I know that this is not possible.

All other solutions I know about (except the AIS sart and PLB's) save the Position (GPS) where you lost the crew over board. In other words no active update on the current COB/MOB position.
Only PLB's (with GPS) and AIS sart do this.
The disadvantage with a PLB is that if you are beyond reach of SAR helicopters help is far away. and the only way you get position data on the COB/MOB is by radio communication with a land station.

There is a low cost solution available for iPhon/Ipad available - works the same way as the Life tag http://sarmob.no/

 

[neale]

I have used the Raymarine one and it does exactly what it says on the tin. The alarm is loud and goes off as soon as contact between base station and personal transponder is lost. I have moored up in a marina and wandered about 50 foot from the boat while still wearing mine and given the crew on board a heart attack!

Not cheap but def worth considering.

Just to add that the system will provide a waypoint on the plotter if it is integrated but it won't update the position. it will only plot the position where the alarm went off. This shouldn't be a big problem as you will know they have gone OB very quickly and any drift should be insignificant and easily worked out.

 

[ChrisE]

.

The best precaution is to stay clipped on to the boat at all times when on deck alone - and yes I know that this is not possible.

I beg to differ, we have sailed two handed all over the place and haven't yet come across circumstances where we need to be unclipped.

I'd be interested to know when you think that it might be necessary.

 

[Graham_Wright]

What about a kill cord? Light enough not to be a burden. Would need to have its function inverted but easy enough and very cheap.

 

[[70521]]

What about a kill cord? Light enough not to be a burden. Would need to have its function inverted but easy enough and very cheap.

I'd be interested to see the design for use when sailing.

 

[Salty John]

Best to just stay on the boat. Always clip on when alone on deck, at night or in heavy weather.

 

[prv]

The obvious difference between the Lifetag (and others) and an AIS SART is that the Lifetag doesn't guide you back to the MOB, it just records approximately where they fell off. What do you reckon is a reasonable upper bound for the time it takes for the alarm to be triggered, you to wake up, groggily figure out what this unfamiliar beeping noise is (or does it use the standard Seatalk alarm and sound the same as every other warning from the plotter?), then jump out of bed and get on deck? At that point, the plotter (if Raymarine) will be indicating a course to steer back to the place where your missus fell off, but is she still there? How far might she have drifted in a couple of knots of current? Personally I would rather have an active device on the casualty, broadcasting their position, and the best way to do that is an AIS SART.

Agree that carrying both SART and PLB is inconvenient unless you're already togged up like a Southern Ocean racer, so if I had to pick one for falling off a crewed boat it would be the SART. The boat I've just fallen off is best-placed to rescue me, so I want to alert them immediately and guide them back to me. If appropriate, they can request further help via VHF; if you're out of VHF range then there's unlikely to be much that anyone else can do anyway. Waiting a couple of hours or more for a shore-based rescue asset to be tasked and arrive is very much second-best.

You do of course need a suitable AIS receiver that knows what an AIS SART looks like and does something appropriate - including sounding a loud alarm. The Vesper Watchmate (I promise I'm not on commission ) does this very well, but others are getting there too. I would suggest you really want an external klaxon down below which sounds completely different to any other alarm including the normal AIS warnings. I suggested a software update to Vesper (which they liked, but I don't know if they've done it yet) which would let you use the internal beeper for normal AIS alarms and activate the external alarm relay only for a SART - so you could have a big flashing light and hooter dedicated to MOB.

On the other hand, I also believe it's possible to get carried away on the subject of MOB electronics. We don't all wear parachutes on hotel balconies in case we suddenly go hurtling over the railing. If the boat's likely to throw you off then a harness and tether is a better bet, but quite a lot of the time it isn't.

Pete

 

[knuterikt]

I beg to differ, we have sailed two handed all over the place and haven't yet come across circumstances where we need to be unclipped.

I'd be interested to know when you think that it might be necessary.

I wrote this to avoid the flame's for not stating that, and then I get the opposite
Someone will be able to find an argument for not staying clipped on all the time

 

[vyv_cox]

I believe the standard advice is that one person awake at night remains clipped on. If there is a requirement to unclip, wake the off-watch person first. We are set up like this, with the harness tether immediately outside the companionway, enabling the wearer to be standing in the saloon before unclipping. Although in our case it is very rarely necessary to leave cockpit and it would take a contortionist to fall between the hood and bimini frames.

 

[Graham_Wright]

I'd be interested to see the design for use when sailing.

Go on - be a devil's advocate.

 

[sam_uk]

A thought I had for a budget version. Not done it yet.

1) buy a rechargable bluetooth headset

2) Tether it to your android phone (plugged in to power down below)

3) Give the headset to the person on watch

3) Install the free 'bluetooth lost' app on your phone

If the batteries go flat in the headset, the headset goes out of range, or falls in the water the alarm will sound down below.

Total cost £20 ish assuming you have an Android phone.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

How about a piece of string tied to the on watch crews harness and the off watch crews toe?

 

[2nd_apprentice]

How about a piece of string tied to the on watch crews harness and the off watch crews toe?

And how long would that have to be?

Seriously though: as much as I enjoy smartphone apps I most certainly would not want to trust my life to a mobile phone. I'm not so sure about the Raymarine kit mentioned by the OP but at least it would be designed for the job. I'd rather go with the "always clip on when on deck" school of thought though.

 

[Neil_Y]

How about a piece of string tied to the on watch crews harness and the off watch crews toe?

I know a boat that used the string to toe approach, but seriously we carried small rape alarms for use as hatch and deck alarms when moored berthed in dodgy areas, these could easily be used as a kill cord system.

Velcro the alarm

to somewhere in the hatchway and have a line plugged in to alarm, I think you would easily hear it if it was next to the steering or in a cockpit locker.

But I'd back up the comment from someone who said you are always clipped on, if you plan to do anything on deck you wake the other person, and you're still clipped on. Never unclipped, it only takes one rogue wave a roll of the boat and a trip as you move in the cockpit to end in a swim, especially when trade wind sailing when you can get big rolls.

 

[sam_uk]

And how long would that have to be?

Seriously though: as much as I enjoy smartphone apps I most certainly would not want to trust my life to a mobile phone. I'm not so sure about the Raymarine kit mentioned by the OP but at least it would be designed for the job. I'd rather go with the "always clip on when on deck" school of thought though.

Agreed. Clip on. Stay on the boat.

If additionally you can afford the Raymarine kit then great ,go for it.

To my mind having a policy of clipping on _and_ additionally having a bluetooth/ Android setup is worth considering.

It's possible, but unlikely that Android or the app might crash. I don't personally see how the possibility of it not working is worse than the certainty of not being alerted to MOB with no such system.

2p

 

[lw395]

I have to say I don't always clip on if alone on watch in F3 or whatever.
But then I don't wander around the deck with hands in pockets either.

I think over-reliance on gimmicks can lead people to not get into the way of thinking that you just do not want to fall off.
Being on a moving small boat is a bit like climbing, always hold on unless you are in a very secure position.
You see some people moving around a boat while doing other things, the people who are used to small boats will generally be subtly safer. They will sit if it's practical, or if they need to stand they will be where the mast or rigging or something is there as a handhold.
If they are peeing over the back, they will be the ones with an arm around the backstay.

But it's easier to buy a couple of cheap bits of electronics than teach this sort of thing.

 

[prv]

I have to say I don't always clip on if alone on watch in F3 or whatever.
But then I don't wander around the deck with hands in pockets either.

I think over-reliance on gimmicks can lead people to not get into the way of thinking that you just do not want to fall off.
Being on a moving small boat is a bit like climbing, always hold on unless you are in a very secure position.
You see some people moving around a boat while doing other things, the people who are used to small boats will generally be subtly safer. They will sit if it's practical, or if they need to stand they will be where the mast or rigging or something is there as a handhold.
If they are peeing over the back, they will be the ones with an arm around the backstay.

But it's easier to buy a couple of cheap bits of electronics than teach this sort of thing.

+ lots!

Pete

 

[Uricanejack]

We are a two handed small sailing vessel that's currently cruising around the Med. A set up which I'm sure is very common. We're intending to be doing various overnight and multi-day passages during our voyages, which means one person will be on watch whilst the other is likely to be in bed.

With the trips we've done so far, our biggest concern has been "what if the other person falls off the boat and I sleep through it?" If it happens at the beginning of a two hour shift, you could be well away from them before you realise they're gone!

We already carry personal PLB's with us, so that's something, but it would be nice to have something that will alert the remaining person on board that a person has come off the boat. I've seen the AIS alert jobbies that look a lot like PLB's. Whilst this would probably work, they're a little on the big side, and carrying a PLB and one of them is just too much and will likely just be left on the chart table.

However, I've long wondered about these Man Overboard systems, such as Raymarine's one - http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=715
You only need a small RF tag that you can attach to yourself or your lifejacket and Bob's your uncle, Fanny's your aunt and all that.
They're not cheap, but the initial kit is around the cost of two AIS beacon thingies.

Has anyone used one of these sets, and if so, what did you think?

Are they worth the £££, or are they just a gimmick?

My budget is limited. So I have to choose what I need on the basis of what's the risk, worst cosequence and a reasonably practical gear or response.
lots of things I don't have and do without, my assessment of what is resonable practical and affordable is unique to me.
I doubt this kit would make it into my list of priorities. I would go with the harness and procedure outlined above. harness at night or two on deck in fact I would extend to harness on if alone on deck day or night. or two on deck day or night.

If it fits your budget and you don't have to leave out something else. Go for it the peace of mind will be valuable so long as it does not lead to a false sense of security.
if it helps you find a fallen crew member it will have been money well spent.
If you or your crew fall over not wearing a harness due to relying on this? Depends if you are found in time

 

[phanakapan]

I am of the 'always clip on at night/alone and wake up the other if going on deck' persuasion- but we do have a 'Mobi' alarm system as well, because my partner says he sleeps better at night knowing the alarm would go off if I fell overboard. It was fairly cheap, an alarm goes off if one gets too far from the radio signal receiving box, but that's all- no position marker on the plotter. The units are small enough for a pocket/clip onto lifejacket. BUT I dislike it- it goes off fairly frequently as a false alarm, waking up the off watch person who by now hardly responds except to groggily open one eye as the on watch person calls out 'I'm still here....'