Man overboard, short handed recovery.

[Deleted member 36384]

Context: Older person, UK cold waters, only the wife on board, assume she is not strong or the best sailor but does have a clue.

To haul yourself into the dinghy is going to be very hard and you will exhaust yourself in seconds unless its set up for hauling yourself in. The analogy is that it takes 25% more energy to swing a punch and miss, than swing a punch and strike the blow - fact. Entry from the rear if you have sponsons could be better as weight on the side is likely to tip it over your head. As kids we did this a lot playing about in boats and I was a lightweight. If you are fit enough to haul yourself into a dinghy, then climb up the ladder on the stern if it lowers below the water line. Getting into a dinghy is much easier with flippers (dont divers just hate that word) and additional suit buoyancy.

Getting into a liferaft by yourself is hard when young and fit. I have done this many times in environmental pools for offshore platform training and I needed help the last time I did this. The type with the ramp that allows you to slide up and over the top tube is good. If you have to put your feet into a stirrup and pull up with legs and hands, forget it if you have no fitness. The lifejacket does not help in getting you into the right position either. More energy is expended trying to compensate for the lifejacket when hauling the body up.

Launching the liferaft would be a good idea in a short handed MOB but I reckon you have to try this after swimming a length, fully dressed, in a cold pool, wearing a lifejacket on one of the Sea Survival Courses just to see how practical it is for your age and level for fitness.

Now my point. It is possible with one of these carabiner boat hook devices to attach a rope to a helpless victim and it is possible on a yacht with larger sheet winches (or an anchor windlass) or a tackle system for the wife to haul in her soaking, helpless husband by the lifejacket D ring or harness straps. There a comments in this post about rigging up devices as being too complicated, in dismay, makes you feel good, b o l l o c k s. It's not by far and AliMs post sums it all up.

Instead of detailed solutions lets see how many ways we can pull someone out the water: -

1. Halyard
2. Mainsheet tackle
3. rope and sheet winch
4. rope and anchor winch
5. tackle tied up to shrouds with a rolling hitch
6. tackle tied to the back stay
7. Topping lift
8. tackle from the boom
9. spinnaker pole and pole lift
10. Kicking strap
11. Assisted ladder climbing

None of the above is hard for your average yachtsman to work out how to make it effective, as are the means to make it effective available in any chandlers.

Stopping the boat under sail, switching on the engine and coming back under power, is harder but not impossible, because we do it every time we go sailing.

My own method tried against the pontoon does work and provides quite a powerful lifting device but this thread has introduced many more options which could be a lot simpler.

I prefer SWMBO to put something on that works, than take something off that wont! I will take AliMs advice and experiment with some of the ideas here because I am worth it.

Goodluck and fairwinds this season.

 

[Quandary]

I am pleased to have started this debate and thank all who have contributed.
We took the boat out yesterday and from the benign location of a mooring off the pub at Otter Ferry we sat and reviewed our options, (before we went to the bar)
Our (personal) conclusions based on all the advice.
The horse shoe lifebuoy is really only useful as a temporary marker, lifejackets to be worn under way, lanyards clipped on to front.
The engine is started asap and the sheets let go, there will then be a lot of distraction from noise, flapping and a swinging boom.
The life sling is trailed around the casualty who needs to be able to grab it.
The cockpit mic. to be used to send a distress message at the first opportunity.
(If the casualty can't grab the lifesling send immediate distress message from cockpit, keep in sight.)
Release the dinghy to clear the transom step and put folding ladder in water, don't release rear lifelines yet.
Haul casualty to ladder, trail as high as possible and make off line tight in cockpit, it may be possible to control or drop sails at this point.
It may be necessary to puncture the lifejacket when casualty is secure. (without stabbing the casualty)
If casualty does not climb aboard, fix topping lift (or halyard)to harness ring, lanyard or to lifesling line and grind.
If the casualty is dragged alongside the cockpit first, then walked around to the stern there is less chance of him going in under the stern.
I have concluded that in most conditions it will be easier to get on to the submerged ladder and step than get into the dinghy unless half of it was kept only partially inflated.
I don't think the launching the liferaft is likely to be a useful option in most circumstances.
The quoit with heaving line may be a useful reserve if the sling is hard to manouevre.
I am considering adding another deeper step to the transom ladder in the form of a 30" line through 10" of pipe.
It does strike me that having a decent length of fold down ladder and a transom step gives a considerable advantage for recovery of a conscious person, however the sling is essential in guiding the casualty safely to it.

 

[prv]

I've often noticed with boarding ladders that they seem stop not much above water level

Eh? Did you mean "below" water level? A ladder that doesn't even go into the water would be completely useless, and I don't think I've ever seen one. I've chartered all kinds of boats (and not just shiny BenJenBavs in the Med) and never come across a ladder that didn't extend several rungs into the water.

and there's a similar problem I would have thought if you have a sugar scoop or open transom

I guess this is true with race-style open transoms that might not have a ladder - but then they're not necessarily intended as a boarding platform anyway. It would seem odd to me to fit a sugar-scoop swim platform without a ladder; I don't think I've sailed on such a boat.

Pete

 

[Norman_E]

There have been some very good ideas on here, and I particularly liked the idea of a cockpit prompt card. (Blowing Old Boots)
I am concerned that some of the methods suggested require things to be rigged, that will take time during which the person left on board will probably lose sight of the casualty. Whilst I don't wish to be unduly critical of well thought out schemes I am also concerned that in many cases the person left onboard has to go forward of the cockpit, which is fine in calm conditions, but not in the adverse ones when an MOB is more likely.

In one case the remaining crewmember has to go to the mast foot to detach the kicker, then attach it to the shrouds chainplate, probably taking ample time in a blow for the boat to drift well away from the MOB.

I do not have any perfect answer to this problem, except to say that I sail in warm waters where neither SWMBO nor myself would be in immediate danger of drowning or dying of the cold, and that I would always want to be recovered, or recover anyone else, using the transom boarding ladder, and without anyone going forward of the cockpit. Anyone unable to climb aboard would be secured with a short rope whilst a sling was attached to the topping lift.

 

[prv]

I do not have any perfect answer to this problem, except to say that I sail in warm waters where neither SWMBO nor myself would be in immediate danger of drowning or dying of the cold, and that I would always want to be recovered, or recover anyone else, using the transom boarding ladder,

In which case I can only presume that you've never looked at the transom of a boat pitching up and down in a chop - the stern of the boat ahead of you in a string of moorings often presents a good example in the right weather. This applies particularly to "modern" stern shapes with a flat underside that's usually just under the water. If I were being recovered in such conditions, there's no way I'd want that underside crashing in and out of the water right where my head is going to be. In calm water, by all means I'll climb up the ladder, but if it's rough I'd want to be pulled up amidships where the pitching is neutral.

Fortunately the question is moot on Kindred Spirit, as the swim ladder clips onto the toerail immediately forward of the cockpit.

Pete