Man overboard, short handed recovery.

Quandary said:
..... Will this work? my life could depend on it
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Topping lift is through snatch block and snatch block is attached to you. Take the topping lift wrap it around gooseneck (or rams horns) and fasten off on it self. There is then scope to get some height and distance above / from the gunwale as you come up. Try it with a spare water canister over the side.

Will it work, yes, the mechanics should be OK. The large lever of a line from the mast head only is likely to have a tendency to oscillate with you going swinging in and out as the boat rocks. However, you are a lot better restrained with the line angle nearer to the horizontal as it traverses to the gooseneck. The end of the topping lift does have to be higher than the gunwale. Up at the gooseneck would make a more effective purchase for lifting you vertically. The alternative, the beam attachment, would eventual translate to a more horizontal pull which may cause serious crushing. You dont want a rib through your heart or lung.

The lever affect from the mast could be an advantage. As the boat is pulled over there will be less tension on the line as you float, presenting an opportunity to pull in faster or easier. Of course as the boat rocks the other way you will have the opportunity to closely inspect the gel coat. Lever aside, any swell will produce the same affect anyway.

These are healthy discussions because they could save a life. I have already decided to revisit my own method based on this posting.

Ubergeekian surely the tenacity to live would be increased if you knew that there was a way of getting you back onboard, especially when all strength has left you and you are reduced to mumbling incoherence. I would not like to be lying along side my hull waiting on a lifeboat when rescue was only 3 foot up the hull.
 
Boots
My intention was to have the snatch block on the end of the halyard and snatch it over the rescue line between harness or sling and the deck cleat, I envisage the rescue line secured to the cleat at about 2-3m min. length to avoid the strops on the sling reaching the block before the casualty is at deck level, I don't quite follow the mechanics of snatching it to the halyard from the rescue line, is it to reduce movement, but is it not more likely to crush.
I think I read something somewhere about the risk to old folks like me of crushing causing cardiac arrest or something when hauling aboard, but which is worse a hard bang or a continuous crushing?
 
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Expert on the subject

Having both had a man overboard and then was left on boat single handed AND fallen in the marina in November in the dark, I am something of an expert on the subject.

As you will see, I survived both events, and so did the MOB.

In the MOB incident I managed to get back to the casualty without any problem. The problem was getting him back on board. In this instance, I was lucky as I was able to attract the attention of a nearby motorboat and THEY managed to get the casualty onto their boat leaving me single-handed on mine. Alterations I have made to my boat since the incident which I hope would help if it ever happened again.

1. Hand held radio ALWAYS in the cockpit so I can call for assistance.
2. New boarding ladder which opens so it reaches right down in the water.
3. ALWAYS attach lifeline to pushpit so it is handy to snap MOB onto once he/she is back with the boat. Stops him/her falling off ladder while I am trying to get him/her back on board.
4. OSCAR type lifesling on rail.
5. Tiller pilot to help with single handed sailing
6. Foghorn handy to attract attention
7. Snap shackle arrangement on mainsheet tackle to assist with recovery

The falling in marina incident. This was much more frightening as I was completely alone, it was pitch dark and the marina was deserted. There were no steps near, and I didn't know where the nearest might be. I thought I would swim to the stern of the nearest boat and attempt to get up on their boarding ladder (if I were lucky enough for them to have a suitable one which I could deploy and climb up). However, I thought it would be silly not to call for help first, so I yelled HELP about three times with increasing volume.

To my relief and amazement I heard someone say 'OK, I'm coming, where are you?' He was on a boat about three or four away and had heard me over the radio he was listening to. Obviously it was not my time. I bought the largest bottle of whisky I could find to thank my rescuer.

Not sure what I learned about that incident. I asked the marina to install better lighting, they listened symathetically but didn't do much. I am much more careful around pontoons now especially in the cold and dark.
 
In case it might help anyone else with a transom-hung rudder ...

I have a transom hung rudder (actually two) and no boarding ladder. I bought a length of spectra tube webbing, then fixed some bungee cord inside. Webbing runs from quarter to quarter under the lower gudgeon/pintle of the rudders, and under the outboard bracket. If I'm in the water I should - I hope - be able to pull the line down and stand on it to give me some leverage in getting up and back into the boat. Bungee keeps the line out of the water when not "in use".
 
Ubergeekian said:
It will be mounted on the pushpit (no transom, remember), all nicely packed in its case, with a deployment rope dangling out of it to just above water level. Since it's held together by velcro, one good tug should release it.
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Do you mean these ones ? They call them "satchel ladders" on the site. They do look quite neat but I don't know how well they'd work on a sloping transom (I know you said your boat doesn't have a transom).
 
Fascinating thread. I have always been of the opinion that the best way of dealing with MOB is to make damn sure you don't go over in the first place, but in the event, it would be my 7½ stone, 4'10"-in-her-socks SWMBO who would have to get me out. So this season I will be organising some kind of hoisting arrangement that is, if not "idiot proof", then "probably panicking SWMBO" proof.

The talk of using the topping lift or main halliard is all very well, but even if there is a snap shackle on the topping lift, in the heat of the moment could it be released quickly, and assuming the main isn't hoisted, what then happens to the boom? You couldn't easily undo a snap shackle if the weight of the boom is on it.

Would the topping lift on our 24' Achilles support the weight of me (10½ stone) and my sodden clothing and oilies?

If you use a halliard, how would the stability of the boat be affected by the weight of me (10½ stone) and my sodden clothing and oilies dangling over the side from the top of the mast?

The best option for our boat/SWMBO combination seems to be the idea of using the kicker to hold the boom out over the side, and then attaching a block & tackle to the boom. I will explore this next time we go to the boat.

Very useful discussion!
 
Let's assume you're sailing along when you fall overboard. Swimbo can't get the mainsail down on her own so she chucks the lifesling thing out and does her best to get back to you. With any luck, she will manage to tow the lifesling thing close to you and you've got hold of it.

She now needs to get the boat head to wind so it doesn't career off somewhere towing you along with it. With the boat stationery (ish) you can get the lifesling over your shoulders.

She then hauls you in and you arrive at the stern of your boat. She has lowered the ladder but you are too weak by this time to simply climb up the ladder.

She clips the lifeline (that you keep handy on the pushpit) one end on the boat one end on your harness (if you're wearing one). If you're not, she passes the lifeline around under your arms and then clips it back onto itself. You are then attached to the boat while she is busy keeping things on board in control.

Making sure boat is still head to wind, she makes sure the topping lift is on, taking the weight of the boom, then unclips the snap shackle at the base of the mainsheet tackle. Lengthening the mainsheet she attaches the snap shackle end to you. Remember you have a lifeline round you now so there should be something to attach to.

She then hauls on the mainsheet until it lifts you. As it lifts you, you become lighter and you are better able to climb the ladder and, with Swimbo's assistance, you are able to get on board again.

If you don't have a lifesling on board, an alternative is to tie a fender onto the end of a length of rope already attached to the boat. A halyard end will work fine. Chuck the fender out and sail or motor around the MOB so he/she can get hold on it. You can pull the MOB back to the boat while he/she hangs on to the fender.

One dilemma is, does SWIMBO send a mayday the moment you fall over, or does she get on with the task of rescuing you? It takes several minutes to send a mayday, better to keep you in sight and close contact.

My MOB experience was in January. I got back my MOB to the stern of my boat THREE times, but each time he got there he was unable to climb out of the water and kept falling in necessitating another 'rescue'. Which is why I now have a ladder which extends right down into the water, a lifeline permanently attached to the pushpit and a snapshackle on the mainsheet so it can be used as lifting tackle.
 
When we used to take our Achilles 24 to race in Lough Neagh in the winter series she lay to a pontoon in the river, we used to rig a halyard to a tree and try to winch her over to scrub the bottom mid series. I don't think we ever got her much past about 30 degrees, though she was fin keel. I have been up to the top of the mast at sea with full sail up in a blow trying to free a jammed spinnaker halyard ( first time I ever went to any mast top) so I would think you are very unlikely to pull one over, though I was about 20lbs lighter then. I believe all your halyards inc. the topping lift should be strong enough to take you up the mast, you never know what can go wrong up there.
 
eastcoastbernie said:
My MOB experience was in January. I got back my MOB to the stern of my boat THREE times, but each time he got there he was unable to climb out of the water and kept falling in necessitating another 'rescue'. Which is why I now have a ladder which extends right down into the water, a lifeline permanently attached to the pushpit and a snapshackle on the mainsheet so it can be used as lifting tackle.
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A good piece of reasoning IMO. Whatever plan is laid in the following are universally important - it seems to me:

1. the key must always be in the engine ready to fire up
2. the transom ladder must be free to drop and must reach 3 steps or more into the sea - provides a ramp if not actually used as a ladder.
3. a MOB at sea with full sea clothing will soon tire and sink however good a swimmer they are. Believe it!
4. the MOB will therefore play hardly any role in his/her rescue
5. the helm must get some attachment onto the MOB over (normally) the stern - a floatation belt is much better than a ring.
6. the attachment must be laid on a winch and wound in, with additional attachments made to the MOB's limbs to ensure he does not slip back into the sea. You get one shot at this.
7. there is no time for a single helm to get into radio rescue protocol, the priority is to attach the MOB above the waterline, and haul in.
8. what's to do with sails? Well, get them depowered / rolled in after attaching the MOB, is best....but

I read the complicated systems proposed above with dismay - they may serve a need to feel there are lots of "tools" for the job, but in reality are near useless. By the time something is rigged, the MOB is no longer a problem.......

Nothing changes: do everything possible to prevent a MOB !

PWG
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Ubergeekian surely the tenacity to live would be increased if you knew that there was a way of getting you back onboard, especially when all strength has left you and you are reduced to mumbling incoherence. I would not like to be lying along side my hull waiting on a lifeboat when rescue was only 3 foot up the hull.
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I think I would have a damn good try, and I wouldn't give up hope when I hit the water. My overboard=death assumption is the one that informs my movements around the deck.

Year ago my then crew decided to go for a swim on a gorgeous sunny day becalmed about five miles SW of Ailsa Craig. He, erm, didn't enjoy the experience (the Gulf Stream ain't that warm, kids) and I had to get him out. It was surprising easy, but then the Jouster is a small boat. Basically he just walked up the hull while I held his hands. And yes, if anything had gone wrong ... but we were young, stupid and immortal then. Nowadays I'm middle aged and mortal.
 
Boo2 said:
Do you mean these ones ? They call them "satchel ladders" on the site. They do look quite neat but I don't know how well they'd work on a sloping transom (I know you said your boat doesn't have a transom).
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That's the one. Sorry, misremembered the name. The standard one is hopelessly short for my purpose, as my swimming pool experiments showed, but they were happy to quote for a longer one.
 
Snatch block fitted to the end of the spinny halyard and cleated off so the block is 10 ft above deck. Rope through the block with sling on one end and the other end going to the electric anchor windlass. Assumption being that there will be enough life in me to fend off things like guardrails as I come up.
 
Ubergeekian said:
I'm intrigued that nobody has mentioned liferafts. If I had my liferaft on board, I think one of my first actions would be to chuck it over the side. Bad idea?
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Crikey, flash of genius
Our Redcrest is normally stowed across the stern, fully inflated, it obstructs the boarding ladder hence my strategy for hoisting amidships but takes less than a minute to deploy so is possibly a more effective device than my lifesling. It would not be too difficult to have a version of your boarding ladder hanging from the side and under the tender so that it goes in the water with out any other action needed.
I think you have changed my strategy with the hoist reserved for the odd occasion when the tender is deflated.
 
In flattish water, I second the use of an inflatable tender. When scuba diving from the boat, I found it relatively easy to get into the AX3 and then into the yacht. With care you could roll a tired casualty into the dinghy. But I would think twice before wanting the only person on the yacht to get down into the dinghy.

Other points, if you winch someone up to the toe rail with the sheet winch, they won't be comfortable, but they are secure and will not drown. You can then sort the tackle out to finish the job. Or get help.
Allegedly Bristol Channel Pilots used to get the dinghy on board by tying it to the boom and gybing the boat. I think this method would need a bit of subtle adaptation....

I can't take any of the net/sling/sail methods seriously unless they've been tested in rough water. Bear in mind the boat is going to be halfway out of control if the only person aboard is trying to set up this gear.

I did have an old mainsheet tackle which would lift a casualty from the boom.
And I know the rope on it worked ok in the self tailing lewmar 48's. A ten year old could lift a big bloke with that.
 
Couple of points from my experience. Brendan's comment about the boat moving is very relevant - if you or who ever's left on the boat can't stop it in the water I'd say forget about getting back on board and concentrate on stay alive and getting rescued. I've been both in the water (from dinghies) and on the rescue boat and it's virtually impossible in the best of circumstances. I've also really struggled to get back in my Heron on a couple of occasions as it was blowing along so fast (too much buoyancy with hindsight).

Also handholds. When I used to sail dinghies and crewed the club launch on occasion (I won't kid myself by saying "when I raced dinghies"), we made one dead simple mod which made it much easier for everyone to get aboard from the water.

We simply tied a length of broom handle to a couple of bits of rope and then tied the other end to a point on the deck near the base of the engine box. The length meant it could get to about 2 ft or so from the side. This made a handhold to grab on to once you'd got over the first part of heaving yourself up on to the gunwhales.

With hindsight you probably needed to be reasonably fit and strong to get that far in heavy clothing but we were young then and I'm sure adrenalin would help if had to do it. The trouble was you got so far and then were left nothing to hold on to to pull yourself fully aboard no matter how strong you were. The launch crew could help but, without their help, people were struggling to "flop" themselves fully over the side even if they could get halfway there.

I've often noticed with boarding ladders that they seem stop not much above water level and there's a similar problem I would have thought if you have a sugar scoop or open transom that has nothing to hold on to further inboard. I'd suspect you need a handhold about an arms length away wehn you're almost out the water.
 
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Boarding ladders

here in Oz where the water is warmer we tend to get into the water a lot more (you have to to keep the hull clean) so get out onto the boat a lot more. The best arrangement IMHO is the stern ladder bolted to the transom with a fold down section of 3 rungs. It is unfolded either from above or in the water. You also need a gap in the stern rail but rail either side of the gap to pull yourself up on.
A swimming platform is often fitted to boats but this still needs a ladder to extend into the water and a high hand hold.
I can't imagine a rope ladder in a satchel being much use as the flexabilty means the rungs would swing under the hull when you tried to pull yourself up.
Mention was made of a life line onto the stern rail. Much better is a rope from the person in the water to a harness or under the armpits to a higher pulley point. Many boats have split backstay with the join at a very convenient height above the transom. A pulley or anything to pass a rope through means that at each step a person on board can help the MOB up and brace them to stop falling back into the water. Something with friction is best.
In reality if a MOB is unconscious or helpless them you may need to get someone in the water to attach a harness or rope. Unless you can get down near the water level as in a dinghy or LR. A partially deflated dinghy or LR can be ideal for hauling a MOB into.
lastly when throwing a rope beware that most typical jib sheets of polyester will not float. So have some polypropelene or similar rope handy to throw. olewill
 
Hi
For those of you that take the fatalistic view that if you go over the side you are dead,but the life insurance is up to date and so the missus and kids will be ok,please read the following extract from the RNLI Sea Safety Volunteer Lifejacket Handbook.-
'When someone is lost at sea and no body is recovered,no funeral can take place and no insurance can be paid until that person is proved to be dead.This process can take up to seven years and the family lost their home and income as well as their loved one'
It's a bit off topic but i think relavent.Wear your Lifejacket.(It's the law in Ireland)Service it at regular intervals.If you want to know more about servicing your own Lifejacket,the RNLI are holding free Lifejacket Clinics,open to everybody, throughout the country.These clinics are designed to try to get people to check the operation of their Lifejackets, have a better idea of how they work,the consequence of not adjusting the size correctly,and various items that are sold as 'extras' whereas they should be considered as essentials.eg crutch straps.There is clinic next Saturday 1st May at the 'Merioneth Yacht Club' on Barmouth Harbour,between 1000 and 1600hrs.Even though they are free,these clinics could be worth more than money.Bring your Lifejacket with you.
Cheers
 
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