Man overboard, short handed recovery.

[Quandary]

I bought the last YM because someone said it was about Scotland, but it turned out only to be about our relatively low berthing charges and what can be done to get them up, (increase the waiting lists by importing more boats and sailors from all over England, apparently it is currently only 40%) I am told the operators already have this well in hand but are encouraged by YMs support for higher pricing up here.
However, there was one interesting article by a man who had a close call when he fell in a marina and could not get out, which started me thinking again about reviewing our MOB technique. I have recovered lots of guys in the past but normally they were young fit and agile having fallen out of a boat while racing and I can only recall having problems once when we had lassooed a guy from another boat but when we passed the line over they could not get him aboard so we had to take him on to ours. I have read lots on the subject but would really appreciate any feedback on this.
Sailing two handed my intention is that the Kim recovery sling would be used to secure the casualty and then if conditions are benign the casualty might first be brought alongside the immersed stern ladder. I have a 6 part mainsheet which is easily detached but regard the swinging boom as a potential problem so expect to instead use a halyard and winch to provide lifting power, preferably the main or failing that the spinnaker halyard. If this method of lifting is effective it might be worth rigging a topping lift explicitly for this purpose. I presume that if the halyard is used the casualty comes over the rail beside the mast which is just in front of the halyard winch
Has anyone done a single handed recovery recently and if so what was used to lift. I want to avoid complication, hence the resistance to using a tackle, and a halyard is always available, my wife winches me up for maintenance so I think she could cope with the load.
I know there has been lots written about this but a lot of the magazine trials are with fully crewed boats and burly crew so I would enjoy reading of any experience relative to two handed sailors.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Decided Not To Use Halyards But A Dedicated Tackle

Quandary, I have adopted a procedure which I hope the wife and kids can use to get me back onboard.

I have a six part tackle, a strop and a standard 4 fall kicker connected with a snap shackle at the boom and mast foot. The strop has a tail on it , about 10 foot long but with 5 loops in it equidistant. The main sail should be dropped but doesn't have to be.

1. The strop sinks so assuming I am along side she can manoeuvre the strop around me and tie me off to the boat side.
2. With main preferably down, rough stowed, she attaches the 6 part tackle to the bracket on the boom.
3. She then disconnects the kicker from the mast foot.
4. Swings the boom out.
5. Attaches the kicker to the shrouds chain plate and pulls tight.
6. Pulls the main sheet in tight.
7. Adjusts the length of the six part tackle and pulls up on my securing line tight and connects the six part shackle to the lowest loop she can reach.
8. If she cant pull me in she can lead the tail through the Genoa or cutter fair lead back to the self tailing sheet winch
9. Opens the safety wire gate between two stanchions and hopefully pull me over the gunwale.

The above was arrived at after experimenting along side the pontoon. We decided that removing halyards and working winches (all on the mast) was not a good idea and elected to use a spare sliding eye (but fixed half way along) on the boom foot to attach a tackle to. The kicker was the first choice but it was obvious that the boom needed to be secure when run out and that the kicker was ideal for that. My mainsheet is fixed and reaved through individual blocks, not a tackle, so that was of no use as a lifting point, plus it was on the boom end anyway, Hence the dedicated six part tackle.

She has to remember to put the free end of the tackle line next to the boom so that it can run down to either of the available fair leads if the sheet winch is required.

I also have solid steps which go over the side. They have a very secure mounting and are quite solid and stable (a bit of a hassle to store). My plan is to make an extension which goes about 4' below the water line. I haven't done that yet, but the key point is the ladder attachment points are stout and strong on the boat.

The problem we have at the moment is the strop idea. Getting it round me in the water is a hassle as it is too soft to poke into the water and get it over my shoulders. At the moment, realistically, I need to get the strop over myself. So I am on the look out for a stiff strop that has some form stability to allow it to be manoeuvred over a helpless person, but flexible enough to pull up snug. I am thinking of a dog catcher device, a hollow pole with a loop in the end and the standing part up through the end of the pole in your hands. She would use the pole to manoeuvre the loop over me, pull the end tight and then slide the pole off. This would leave the line ready to attach to the tackle.

 

[prv]

I've never needed to do it in practice, but I think I'd prefer a dedicated tackle rather than a halyard.

1. The halyard may be in use. Depends on your rig, obviously, but on my boat if the main is up (either sailed back to the MOB or strapped it amidships while motoring) there won't be a spare halyard.

2. Detaching the halyard from whatever it's secured to, running out enough to get the end down to water level, attaching it to the casualty, then lifting while guiding them over the side all seems like a bit of a faff if you're shorthanded and the halyard tail runs to the cockpit as many do.

3. The shackle on the end of the halyard is unlikely to be ideal for quickly securing to someone in the water.

4. If you're pitching and rolling a lot, a line from the masthead is potentially going to be flying around a bit.

5. What if you let go and lose the end?

I think my ideal system for a bigger boat would be a dedicated handy-billy with jammer (like a dinghy mainsheet) in the emergency locker. I'd have a small snaphook on one end, and a great big one on the other. If I didn't have a Jon Buoy (which I intend to) I might add a strop to put round someone not wearing a harness. I'd then fix a small cord loop or stainless ring to the shrouds each side, just above head height, for the small hook on the tackle to go onto. This is the only "controversial" bit, as it's extra clutter most of the time, but a 1" loop of thin cord seized onto the wire shouldn't be too obtrusive.

If the time came to use it, you'd have one piece of gear, all right in front of you and all worked from the one place, right above the casualty.

Pete

 

[VicS]

I had a MOB recovery problem last year

The problem was that I was singlehanded and the MOB was me!

I have now fitted a boarding ladder!

 

[snooks]

On Pixie first choice is to use the boarding ladder, Pixie's transom is narrow so there is less danger of getting slammed by it. We too have a KIM Life Sling

Having said that I've just bought a new Marlowbraid (stronger that braid on braid) topping lift for three reasons
1) it will be a spare for the main halyard
2) it's for getting a MOB up and out of the water, and has been left long for this purpose.
3) It's new and I trust it to take my weight if I have to go up the mast

This new topping lift can be lead from the cockpit jammer, round a winch - using it as a turning block forward to a block at the bottom of the forestay back to my lecky windlass, or can be lead from the base of the mast to a block on a strop (kept in the cockpit at all times, that goes around the midships cleat) to the same block on the bow and again to the windlass.

The topping lift can also be lead to the primary ST winches

Last season we would have used the main sheet, and we still can, but I'd prefer a way of securing the boom first.

 

[Quandary]

Yes, Boots and Prv, I will consider the techniques suggested. I anticipate a possible problem for us with the procedure though and that is its relative complexity in a solo panic situation. Fine just after the rehearsal but perhaps not in 4 months time when there are only two of us. My wife takes little to do with the running rigging, she will just about adjust a sheet or halyard but is much more comfortable steering while I set up the gennaker or whatever. I would worry that the 3 or 4 stage procedure might confuse if under pressure.
At present we do not use a topping lift, the boat has 10 halyard jammers and fairly powerful winches behind them, it is our practice to keep the winches clear except when doing adjustments. If I use the mouse line in the mast to rig the 10mm. topping lift, which at present is in a locker, and declare it a dedicated rescue line, led through a dedicated and labelled jammer, tie the snap shackle off at the front of the boom it is then only a question of attaching the lift to the strop on the sling and grinding. The end may need to be walked round the back of the boom if the main is still up.
We always wear lifejackets but if we attach the harness strop all the time rather than in heavy weather as at present it would be an even better lifting line. My wife routinely winds me up on a bosuns chair so is used to doing that without thinking too much about it. That leaves two possible issues, getting the fat body over the rail and I think the halyard would possibly cope as well as a tackle for that and the separate one you identify of getting the lifesling round the victim.
What do you think, any snags in this? Is the motion of the mast likely to be too great and create a very fat pendulum?

 

[AliM]

I recommend you to try it - with all variations - it is really illuminating and not a little scary!

About 18 months ago, a few of us on the East Coast forum met up to have a go. We were anchored, on a calm warm day, with the two victims in lifejackets with harnesses. Even then, it was very difficult to recover them singlehanded with any of the various systems we had thought up in advance. Helen (posting as Mrs Chellars) wrote it up for the forum, with photos - you may be able to get at it. I hope we'll repeat the exercise later in the summer when the water has warmed up a bit.

We all concluded that if it's rough, cold or the MoB is unconsious or not already wearing a lifejacket/harness, then it would be near impossible for one person left on board to recover them - therefore call the lifeboat immediately, before trying anything yourself.

 

[gregmlucas]

What about horizontal recovery

What an interesting thread...

...of particular interest as I am working on building SWMBO's enthusiasm for getting out on our first boat (purchased at the end of last year). One of her biggest concerns for when we are sailing with just the two of us is recovering me in the event she's left on her own. I suppose I should be thankful that her only concern isn't just recovering the life insurance policy from the back of the filing cabinet

I've just bought a KIM lifesling which seems to me like an excellent idea - certainly better than relying on just horseshoe and danbouy. I've also bought one of these emergency ladders for attachment at the side (rather than the stern ladder).

I'm also thinking about something like MobMat which would allow recovery of an incapacitated or unconcious MOB. If the MOB is in that much difficulty, it could be because they've been in the water so long that lifting them out using a regular sling could add cardiac arrest to their list of problems as the blood rushes to their legs.

I imagine, but haven't yet thought it through that we would make use of the topping lift, although my being no lightweight, I suspect she might need to attach a block and tackle to the end of the topping lift and use the the extra purchase to make the lift easier. Not sure whether we might have a dedicated tackle as in the heat of the moment it might be too complicated to disconnect and invert the main sheet tackle.

Greg

 

[Ubergeekian]

Those nice people at Jimmy Green are making me a nine-rung version of their valise ladder, and that will be my way of getting aboard if I am conscious and fairly undamaged. Otherwise I assume that I will not get back on board, though I might have a go at getting into the dinghy.

I have absolutely no faith at all in all the various slings and lifts which as long as I can remember have been invented, sold through the YM/PBO classifieds for a few months and then faded into obscurity.

 

[Ricd]

Sobering .....makes a very strong case for making every effort to ensure nobody ever goes over the side..doubly so if just the two of you on board.

 

[Quandary]

Those nice people at Jimmy Green are making me a nine-rung version of their valise ladder, and that will be my way of getting aboard if I am conscious and fairly undamaged. Otherwise I assume that I will not get back on board, though I might have a go at getting into the dinghy.

I have absolutely no faith at all in all the various slings and lifts which as long as I can remember have been invented, sold through the YM/PBO classifieds for a few months and then faded into obscurity.

How do you intend to deploy it, or will you trail it permanently.
My choice to go for the harness or sling and a hoist is based on my experiences getting back in to sailing dinghies wearing a buoyancy aid which is a lot less restricting than an inflated lifejacket and when I was a lot more flexible, but then I am not the worlds strongest swimmer.

 

[Quandary]

It would be great if we could identify a simple method that works. I am reluctant for us to go down to the boat and say 'we could try this, or perhaps this'
I want to state simply 'If I go over, do X, then Y, then Z so that I induce the minimum stress into the possibility, my wife enjoys sailing and the boat but she is not comfortable in charge of it, as evidenced when she is on her own through the canal etc.
Some time ago an instructor (Sally Livesey Davies) used to run short girls only courses to build confidence in sailing partners, we have always regretted that she did not do one.

 

[caiman]

hi
This is my first reply to this forum so I apologise if i have broken any protocols.
MOB.I sail single handed and so have taken an aggressive view of MOB.I wear bouyancy in the form of a flotation suit and a bouyancy aid with pockets, permanently while afloat.Within the pockets of the BA are a set of mini flares and also a waterproof HH VHF.I have tested the HHVHF from water level and can easily raise the CG through a nearby (18 miles) relay aerial.
If the boat has more than two crew,I think I would get one of them to inflate the front bit of the tender(avon) and partially inflate the rear bit.My theory is that the MOB can clamber over the partially inflated rear section of the tender,assisted by a crew member in the front fully inflated section, and then at least be mostly out of the water ,and so allow water to drain from cloathing,and also be able to relax a bit and gather their wits.
On the matter of boarding ladders,the most sensible one that I've seen is on a local bilge keeler.This folds down so that the bottom rung would sit, or nearly sit, on the sand when the boat is dried out.With the ladder this deep in the water it would be easier(but still not easy) for the MOB to climb one step at a time loosing the weight of trapped water from cloathing on the way.The major advantage of this is that the ladder deploys near enough instantly,just rotating on it's hinge which is just above water level.Rigging tackles,halyards etc for a MOB all take time,and for a single person left on the boat, is a lot to do in any kind of weather,while still keeping the MOB visual and prefrably alongside,and sending a Mayday all at the same time.If you elect to use halyards etc,by using the dinghy method,at least the MOB would be in a relativly safe position while the remaining person gets their head together.On the subject of hydrostatic squeeze,surely the best way is to get the MOB aboard by the quickest method and then immediatly lay them down.If the MOB spends a short time in the water then the squeeze should not be a problem anyway.
Cheers

 

[sailorman]

Sobering .....makes a very strong case for making every effort to ensure nobody ever goes over the side..doubly so if just the two of you on board.

Best dont go overboard.
as we sail as a couple or me single handed if i go O/b ( with a big sea running ) thats me done for, Period ( i hate that word).
PS i do have a swimming Certificate for 25 yds

 

[Ubergeekian]

How do you intend to deploy it, or will you trail it permanently.

It will be mounted on the pushpit (no transom, remember), all nicely packed in its case, with a deployment rope dangling out of it to just above water level. Since it's held together by velcro, one good tug should release it.

Or at least, that's the plan. What does the panel think?

My choice to go for the harness or sling and a hoist is based on my experiences getting back in to sailing dinghies wearing a buoyancy aid which is a lot less restricting than an inflated lifejacket and when I was a lot more flexible, but then I am not the worlds strongest swimmer.

From what I have read, getting an unconscious person back into the average yacht is damn near impossible for the average crew, no matter what gadgets they use, or try to use. My idea to therefore to enable self-boarding if possible and expect to be lashed alongside until help arrives (if help arrives) otherwise.

Basically, though, if I go overboard I expect to die.

 

[Quandary]

Basically, though, if I go overboard I expect to die.[/QUOTE]

I am categorized on here as an extreme pessimist but I would still regard it as worth while to attempt a recovery, I accept that if unconscious the odds are low, but if conscious I would welcome help if it can be organized. That's my purpose in asking for advice.

 

[Ricd]

Put the effort into not going overboard....its dangerous

 

[Deleted member 36384]

..... Since it's held together by velcro, one good tug should release it. .... Or at least, that's the plan. What does the panel think?....

A hang gliding friend recalled a story of a hang glider who died because he did not deploy his parachute. The investigation revealed that the force to over come the Velcro panel was so significant that it could not be released normally.

Basically over a period of time the hook and loops had made full contact over a big surface area. Now before they go flying they pull the flap off and stick it back down again as part of the pre flight checks.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Quandary, If we have an uncontrolled flow from a well my men have to push a series of buttons and pull levers to close the device on the well. Its quite standard and only about 4 buttons / levers. The amount of flow events that have escalated because experienced people panic and push the buttons in the wrong sequence is notable. I number the buttons on all my rigs and have a card stuck next to the control panel that states Push button 1 for bla bla bla, now move lever 2, for example, takes the freak out factor away.

Perhaps once you have determined a method and tried it out you could make up a quick look prompt card that would remove the mystery and instil familiarity. Such simple methods are powerful aids. As a result of this post I will do this for my method.

 

[Quandary]

Put the effort into not going overboard....its dangerous

I think this is dismissive of a serious risk, no one expects to go over and so far I have managed not to, but I have seen and recovered guys in the water often enough to know how easily it an happen. A lot of the times it was when racing, gybing or recovering kites etc. In our early days it was macho to pee over the side rather than go below and some guys still do it even at night. (The biggest risk is getting out of tenders when returning from the pub)
You could opt perhaps to take absolutely no risks and have no fun but that does not guarantee safety, a skipper and friend lost his life on a sunny afternoon just a 1/4 mile off shore when he had a 'turn' which put him in the water which then killed him before his crew got him out.
All I am still looking for is a simple recovery method with some chance of sucess, I think my wife would feel better if she had done the best she could.