ninky
Well-Known Member
can you explain what a handybilly is? thanks.
Man overboard - could your crew cope?
- Thread starter FulmarJeddo
- Start date
can you explain what a handybilly is? thanks.
Channel Ribs
Well-Known Member
MoodySabre
Well-Known Member
This is a handybilly
http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/chandle...t_info/coastline_manoverboard_lifting_kit.htm
As AliM said - get out there and try it - it is blooming difficult in ideal conditions so in a seaway with sails up it would be just about impossible if you were not prepared.
http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/chandle...t_info/coastline_manoverboard_lifting_kit.htm
As AliM said - get out there and try it - it is blooming difficult in ideal conditions so in a seaway with sails up it would be just about impossible if you were not prepared.
MoodySabre
Well-Known Member
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Well, I would hope the toerail is strong enough
The ladder is designed for this purpose as well, is was suggested to me by a lifeboat coxswain as a safer bet than the transom boarding ladder in rough water.
I am not expecting anyone to simply climb up it in rough seas, that is why we have the sling on dedicated halyard as recommended by said coxswain, it is there as an aid to boarding.
What do you suggest then ?
Hi, I think I'm with those who suggest that a solid ladder jumping up and down off the transom could be a lethal object. Similarly the ladder alongside seems to be similar but possibly less so. A rolling boat in a sea would mean that the bottom of some ladders end bits are liable be dangerous on their way down. The attachment to the toerail is possibly the weakest link rather than the toerail itself
I have no particular favourite method of retrieving MOB, I just know from my own experiences afloat and by all the accounts I have seen and read that most MOB's would be incredibly difficult to get back onboard, especially if they were unable to assist the crew or were injured.
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I am with the majority on this who say.... 'DON'T FALL IN'.
This though is too easy to say but advice is not always forthcoming on the precautions to be taken to prevent MOB.
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It is not always necessary to clip on when going forward but often in anything except calm seas, advisable.
In calm seas on a warm day many will not wear a lifejacket let alone a safety line or harness. I tend not to when with crew who are in my regard, competent.
Therefore how do people go forward more safely in poor conditions?
Well it is often more easy than inexperienced people first realise. Those who aren't experienced sailors can firstly be advised to keep their centre of gravity low by flexing at the knees with a stoop and for them to……… identify the handholds on the way, and the likely trip hazards on route, before starting forward. (sounds like a dreadful H&S handbook I know but it helps them).
Keep as much of your visual attention up on the route planned and so you will see the rolling of the boat ahead of your balance problems. Just a few seconds with this sort of basic advice has helped many of my visitors aboard feel a great deal more confident.
The pitching and rolling boat is not to everyones taste, and people who have great problems with this are best staying in the cockpit with lifejacket on.
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When on my own and sailing away from the vacinity of other craft, I wear a LJ and have two personal safety lines available to me.
My favourite is the 3 way. It is heavier than my two way, but if I do go forward on a pitching rolling deck then I can always be hitched on. When doing this I invariably go crawling across the coachroof or along the side deck on all fours... Again, it keeps the centre of gravity low and I can be on the shortest of my three way lines to the jackstay.
When arriving at the mast or foredeck I can then attach the 3rd part of the safety line closer to where I want to go. I try to minimize the distance I would fall where the safety line would come into play,in the event.
Now, how many of you have practiced this type of action yourself or with crew?….. It’s worth it due to the fact the safety lines can be a terrific hinderence on making your way around and yet may save your or someone elses life. Practice makes the actual event easier.
The last time I did this for real in a dodgy situation was last June some 150 miles off Biscay at night. Four of us onboard, a rolling 38fot ketch in a F5 with a F7 forecast. We were off up front to hank on a jib to replace the furling genoa. We discussed the required rolls that we were to play before going out of the cockpit and each made good points to advise others. I was the only person to have a 3 way safety line.
By the end of the little adventure the other two deckmen swore they would get a 3 way line as soon as they could. They were so vulnerable when transferring the end of their lines to another attachment.
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Accidental Gybing... This must be a fairly common occurence for less experienced skippers. Is enough tuition given or are we reminded often enough of where not to be just in case this happens?
Some booms are at or below head height in small yachts and so particular advice and reminding are applicable here.
Basically I suppose it comes down to seamanship and experience but even then it can go wrong. In another posting I have made in another blog recently, I made the comment that I did accidentally gybe recently in a very light breeze when a preventer wasn't applicable. The main had just been raised and we went about and I was about to do a controlled gybe having made away from the floating fuel barge in Poole. My crew including my daughter had gone around to the lee side to get in all the fenders and lines as we made off. Just then all our attentions were caught by the fuel bargemans superb boxer dog. A split second later, the light air took the boom on its way without me having tightened the mainsheet. My daughter luckily wearing a padded wooly hat was hit on the head by the boom and was on her way overboard. She was luckily caught by my son who cradled her in his arms and lowered her to the deck. She was momentarily dazed and later had a bump, but with no signs of worse she rested up for a while and was later o.k. However, the guilt that I felt was tremendous and I was so cross with myself as I should have known and done better. She did have a life jacket on and with 4 of us onboard, on a fairly calm day, we may have got her back aboard fairly quickly had she gone over. However, I should have been more attentive to my own task, I should have tightened the mainsheet long before this occurred and I should have advised my crew that if they were to be on the lee side, then they should have been aware that the boat would gybe and they would be on the low side and vulnerable.
Well, it makes me sweat thinking of it even writing this...... the lesson to be learnt though is that we need to advise and instruct all our crew on the ways of being more safe rather than just assuming they all know better, and practice at routines makes for a safer environment and above all as skippers, concentrate.
p.s. I carry an EPIRB aboard, DSC VHF with MOB provision, lifejackets have hoods, crotch straps and lights, I have a large danbuoy with extending arm and light. My boat is fitted with AIS receiver and a SeaMe. I don't take risks but we can all make mistakes.... the most important action to take is to minimize that which can go wrong in the first place.
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ChrisE
Well-Known Member
If you are going to use the boom as the derrick then attach the mainsheet to the traveller with a snapshackle. Then the unclipped shackle can be clipped to the eye of the lifebelt and MOB hauled aboard. This works, it's not my idea it came from Southern Sailing School, we have this on Rival Spirit and have tried it. The MoB will be bruised to hell as they bang their way up the topsides but it represents a fair chance of getting someone back on board.
AliM
Well-Known Member
"If you are going to use the boom as the derrick then attach the mainsheet to the traveller with a snapshackle. Then the unclipped shackle can be clipped to the eye of the lifebelt and MOB hauled aboard. This works, it's not my idea it came from Southern Sailing School, we have this on Rival Spirit and have tried it. The MoB will be bruised to hell as they bang their way up the topsides but it represents a fair chance of getting someone back on board."
Try it in calm water with a real person (lifted out of a dinghy or off a pontoon), then consider if you could still lift them if they were wearing sodden clothing. That certainly made us reconsider our ideas!
Try it in calm water with a real person (lifted out of a dinghy or off a pontoon), then consider if you could still lift them if they were wearing sodden clothing. That certainly made us reconsider our ideas!
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Then try it in a sea with at least a F4 blowing on a cold night, boom lashing from side to side, with poor viz, etc.... etc....
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Yes, we have tried it on a pontoon but what is the alternative? We sail two-handed, I'm a big bloke and if I was the MoB my missus would have to haul me up. Our mainsheet has a 8:1 purchase which gives her a fighting chance of getting me on board, we have tried this and if put the mainsheet through a block and onto a winch you'd be suprised how much lifting power there is.
We have high topsides, an IOR regs fine stern with a Monitor that can be used as steps if the weather is calm. Clearly, all of this is the plan of last resort, we don't plan to go overboard and accept that if we do in any kind of cool water and/or incliment weather our chances are limited.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
See my comment to AliM, if you can come up with a better idea the works on our craft I'd love to hear it.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Again, try it in a F4+ with a confused sea, with boom lashing about......... sorry to be a downer on all these methods voiced... great in theory on a nice sunny day in pond like conditions, but that's not when many MOB's go in is it?.... and if they do they are most likely not frozen, hurt or unable to assist you in retrieving them.
MORE ADVICE AND TRAINING REQ'D ON HOW TO STAY ABOARD MORE RELEVANT!
ninky
Well-Known Member
ah...i see. it's basically a block system as we have for our mainsheet. can someone explain how you would use the mainsheet system to get a MOB back in simple terms? which bits to attach / detach where?
thanks.
also are there any other common mistakes made in MOB? the MOB drills i've done have all involved getting back to a fender - good for boat handling but not good at indicating how to get a person back on the boat. i've always thought a halyard / winch was the best option but a real life situation would be a bad time to find out it wasn't.....
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Again, try it in a F4+ with a confused sea, with boom lashing about......... sorry to be a downer on all these methods voiced... great in theory on a nice sunny day in pond like conditions, but that's not when many MOB's go in is it?.... and if they do they are most likely not frozen, hurt or unable to assist you in retrieving them.
MORE ADVICE AND TRAINING REQ'D ON HOW TO STAY ABOARD MORE RELEVANT!
If you read the message you'll see that a. we've tried it b. it is a method of last resort.
You'd propose we don't even have a plan and wave good-bye to your loved one?
MORE SKILL REQUIRED IN READING POSTS AND LISTENING TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
All the methods of slings, pulleys from booms etc... possibly all worth trying in calm conditions, some with practice may even work after a fashion and possibly a long time if crew are not well rehearsed and the gear not readily fixed up and available.
I don't have a better idea of retrieving the MOB.... less than that, IN BAD CONDITIONS AND ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, don't bother with these methods in the first place, as you are probably endangering those onboard in trying it.
Better to use Mayday, flashing EPIRB thrown at MOB, lifebelt +danbuoy, get the vessel in the vacinity of the MOB and.... pray if you have a God!
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
I too have a Monitor and in a sea it could be a lethal weapon to a MOB if thay tried to climb aboard from it.
I towed a dinghy 5 years ago when the weather came up rough. I realised the dinghy was vulnerable and so we hove to to get it on board. It was a Zodiac so a strong make. It came up under the 'parked' paddle, or ratherthe 'parked' paddle came down on it, and burst open the side..... Imagine an MOB in the same position ??
yerffoeg
Well-Known Member
MOB
Check out the three articles in consecutive issues of 'Sailing Today' earlier in the year. I believe some of the equipment now on sail at Jimmy Green's came about as a result of the 'experiments' set out in the aforementioned articles.
Check out the three articles in consecutive issues of 'Sailing Today' earlier in the year. I believe some of the equipment now on sail at Jimmy Green's came about as a result of the 'experiments' set out in the aforementioned articles.
ChrisE
Well-Known Member
Of course, you are right, the Monitor route only works in flat conditions, I've tried that as well.
Any roads up, I've no plans to use this stuff any more than I wish to use the series drogue we carry on ocean passages. But as they say if you fail to plan you plan to fail.
nimbusgb
Well-Known Member
I tip the scales at 126 kg. My crew wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting me back aboard unless I was concious.
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Hi, it would be interesting to know which if any were tried in the conditions that I'm suggesting are more likely to be relevant to the conditions when MOB are likely to occur.
Sorry if I have had a go at people during my comments, but my intentions are to try and emphasize the difficulties and dangers involved in trying to get MOB's safe, in bad conditions and to emphasize that training is not all it should be in the RYA courses. My ventures accross Biscay I related to in a posting earlier, was with two Yachtmaster Ocean qualified men, both had been sailing for over 40 years and one is an instructor with his own sailing school. We all learnt something from our trip and subsequent discussions.
The main thing was that not enough emphasis upon training and education was done to prevent people from coming to the point of MOB in the first place. The 3 way lifeline as just one example.
