jfm
Well-known member
I don't know. Purely as a general remark, to do the leasing scheme and get the ~7% VAT rate in Malta a boat must physically go to Malta for a day or so
Malta to Elba in the middle of winter
- Thread starter MapisM
- Start date
I don't know. Purely as a general remark, to do the leasing scheme and get the ~7% VAT rate in Malta a boat must physically go to Malta for a day or so
Nautical
Active member
Actually I think if over 22m it comes down to 5.4% !, worth the effort 
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Actually I think if over 22m it comes down to 5.4% !, worth the effort
24m I think. Details here http://www.cc-advocates.com/maritime-law/vat-yacht-registration.htm
Nautical
Active member
Sorry Mike, stand corrected, was thinking on another ORY which is at the 5.4% but correct she is 24m.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Just out of interest is a Maltese VAT paid certificate acceptable anywhere in the EU without question? Is Malta under pressure from other EU members to come into line with the way other EU countries treat VAT because it just seems too good to be true that you can drive your boat to Malta and save yourself 15% or more of the VAT payment?
Nautical
Active member
Yes, Malta obviously part of the EU and any VAT paid / cert / invoice etc is valid anywhere in the EU. Whether the other member states like it is another matter. Malta seems to be garnering a fair whack of what was French and Italian leasing, there were three other new yachts from UK in Valletta all going through the same process when I was there a couple of weeks ago.
One mans loss is anothers gain!. Why on earth the Politicos make such a shambles of their yachting industry AKA Spanish Matric, end of French leasing, soon to end Italian leasing and new Italian day rate on yachts, don't they get it?, they just send the money into someone else pocket and banjax their own industry !.
I know its all political gesturing on behalf of the masses but actually I don't know any "ordinary guy on the street" that gives a hoot that Mr money bags got a favourable tax deal on his yacht, as long as he keeps spending money in his resturant, boat yard, chandlery, shops, fuel station, hotels, hire car or whatever he is happy enough and actually smart enough to realise that if you tax the bejesus out of him, he will just B**ger off!
One mans loss is anothers gain!. Why on earth the Politicos make such a shambles of their yachting industry AKA Spanish Matric, end of French leasing, soon to end Italian leasing and new Italian day rate on yachts, don't they get it?, they just send the money into someone else pocket and banjax their own industry !.
I know its all political gesturing on behalf of the masses but actually I don't know any "ordinary guy on the street" that gives a hoot that Mr money bags got a favourable tax deal on his yacht, as long as he keeps spending money in his resturant, boat yard, chandlery, shops, fuel station, hotels, hire car or whatever he is happy enough and actually smart enough to realise that if you tax the bejesus out of him, he will just B**ger off!
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Euro politicians have spent the last few months demonstrating their economic illiteracy in bringing their own currency to the brink of disaster so one shouldn't expect them to apply any common sense to tax policies either
jfm
Well-known member
Contrary to Nautical's first sentence in reply I'd say the answer is "not necessarily". Currently no EU member state has challenged it. But there is nothing to stop a state challenging it, provided they have grounds, and it's not hard to see the grounds they would have avaialbe if they want to pick this fight.
I think the Malta scheme is ok, like 6/10, but there are better ways to skin the cat imho
BTW, the cost will always be bigger than the headline rate. If the headline rate for 24m is 5.4%, it is impossible to do it for that figure. It will always be a full % point higher, at least
Nautical
Active member
I'd bow to JFM's greater knowledge on this, can only say what the pitch is from the Malta legal bods at the moment but that could be sales pitch for all I know, nevertheless there is a lot of new stuff going through Malta at the moment, perhaps it will die a death short term who knows but they seem to be making hay while the sun shines.
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SteveE
New member
Surely if you pay 100% VAT in a EU country at their rates you have not broken the law, if the UK for example has an issue with the rate they have to take it up with the country of VAT not the individual.
Enshrined in European law is freedom of movement of goods within EU states.
Enshrined in European law is freedom of movement of goods within EU states.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
It's not as simple as that. The Maltese scheme involves selling the boat to a Maltese company who then lease it back to you. The key part as far as I can see is that the Maltese authorities then make an assumption that for a proportion of the lease period, the boat is being used outside the EU and therefore only a certain % of VAT is levied on the lease payments and the final purchase cost. In the case of yachts over 24m, this can be as low as 30% of the lease period (more for smaller boats). This means that although the VAT rate in Malta is 18%, the effective rate on a 24m+ boat is about 5.4% upto near 7% for a smaller boat + some modest transaction costs. I would guess that it is this presumption of time boating outside the EU that might incur the wrath of other EU countries. Its all perfectly legal at the moment as far as I understand but its not just a simple case of paying a certain VAT rate on a certain valuation of the boat. In other words, its a bit of a fiddle which someday the Maltese might be forced to change
MapisM
Well-known member
Aaah, the good old VAT debate...!
Just to go on with the O/T, while I'll prepare some pics and clips which will hopefully be more interesting than these accounting matters, I have a question for jfm:
By better ways to skin the cat, do you have in mind anything which does NOT involve the commercial registration of the vessel?
Because there are other implications with that, and not all owners want/can go that way.
Besides, imho that's a somewhat elusive approach, which rather sooner than later is bound to be questioned by fiscal authorities.
Just to go on with the O/T, while I'll prepare some pics and clips which will hopefully be more interesting than these accounting matters, I have a question for jfm:
By better ways to skin the cat, do you have in mind anything which does NOT involve the commercial registration of the vessel?
Because there are other implications with that, and not all owners want/can go that way.
Besides, imho that's a somewhat elusive approach, which rather sooner than later is bound to be questioned by fiscal authorities.
MapisM
Well-known member
Incidentally, upon my return I understood that the sort of weather we managed to escape, deciding to go E of Sicily through Messina strait, rather than taking the shorter route W of Sicily, involved 70+ kts sustained wind, with 20' breaking waves. Stuff which forced some ferries to stop service!
Now I can understand why we had at times up to 10' swell with just a little of wind... Glad that we were quite some miles far from where those waves were building up!
Now I can understand why we had at times up to 10' swell with just a little of wind... Glad that we were quite some miles far from where those waves were building up!
Nautical
Active member
"Just to go on with the O/T, while I'll prepare some pics and clips "
M, this must be a blockbuster production , we can't stand the suspense ! Even a teaser will do !
M, this must be a blockbuster production
, we can't stand the suspense ! Even a teaser will do !
Balearick
New member
And I think when it wants to terminate the leasing it's got to go back there for a day (at least that's the leasing rule in France now)
MapisM
Well-known member
Ok, here's the first couple of videos, with some embedded pics. More to follow on the trip...
Offload from the ship - arguably not so interesting, but moving around heavy boats with just a couple of slings is always a bit worrying:
Temporary berth in Grand Harbour Marina and sea trial:
EDIT:
Finally, these are some clips taken during the trip.
Sorry for the low quality, they were all taken with a mobile!
Malta to Elba...
...and Elba to Genoa
Offload from the ship - arguably not so interesting, but moving around heavy boats with just a couple of slings is always a bit worrying:
Temporary berth in Grand Harbour Marina and sea trial:
EDIT:
Finally, these are some clips taken during the trip.
Sorry for the low quality, they were all taken with a mobile!
Malta to Elba...
...and Elba to Genoa
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scubaman
Well-known member
Fantastic videos M! Really enjoyable. Thanks for taking the time.
Vids like these, and the others posted on here recently, are just what is needed to get through the worst of the winter.
Thanks again!
Vids like these, and the others posted on here recently, are just what is needed to get through the worst of the winter.
Thanks again!
BartW
Well-known member
on the watch
pls explain,
does this mean you're the only one awake, and you're the shipper seated mainly on the helm,
or
do you have someone extra "a shipper" on the helm ?
I'm just curious
thanks for the film / pics,
interesting,
and you know we would like some more
davids0865
Member
Mario,
Great vids and soundtrack, thanks.
Not Gabriel this time, but who?
David
Great vids and soundtrack, thanks.
Not Gabriel this time, but who?
David
MapisM
Well-known member
Sorry folks, I assembled another couple of videos of the trip, but I'm struggling with Youtube, which doesn't seem to accept uploads at this moment.
Will upload them ASAP, and update the previous post.
Is anyone else experiencing problems, by chance?
Some answers in the meantime:
Yes and no. Normally, there has always been at least two of us at the helm, but after the last night, upon arrival in Genoa, two folks were going to spend the whole following day reviewing all the onboard equipments (of which there's plenty!), so I suggested them to have some sleep, and I stayed awake, sleeping a bit after arrival.
Not literally "seated", though. Aside from the very gentle motion, that Stidd helm seat is just too comfortable, and it's better not to use it a lot, to avoid falling asleep...!
The instrumental song is "A Different Drum", not one of the most well known but very appropriate for the subject, imho.
Unfortunately, it conflicts with some US rules, and youtube informed me that the videos will not be accessible from the other side of the Pond (just in case anyone couldn't see them).
Will upload them ASAP, and update the previous post.
Is anyone else experiencing problems, by chance?
Some answers in the meantime:
Yes and no. Normally, there has always been at least two of us at the helm, but after the last night, upon arrival in Genoa, two folks were going to spend the whole following day reviewing all the onboard equipments (of which there's plenty!), so I suggested them to have some sleep, and I stayed awake, sleeping a bit after arrival.
Not literally "seated", though. Aside from the very gentle motion, that Stidd helm seat is just too comfortable, and it's better not to use it a lot, to avoid falling asleep...!
LOL, actually also this soundtrack comes courtesy of Peter Gabriel.
The instrumental song is "A Different Drum", not one of the most well known but very appropriate for the subject, imho.
Unfortunately, it conflicts with some US rules, and youtube informed me that the videos will not be accessible from the other side of the Pond (just in case anyone couldn't see them).