Making a sonata a better 'single handed sailer'

gunman

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Thanks for the advice, If I am honest I can never see myself racing the boat. I have her moored at Lough Erne Yacht Club and the racing fleets there are J24's and Yeomans. I think I have the only sonata in the club. I cant see myself bringing the boat up to Strangford in the future either (although that is closer to my home, we spend most weekends in Fermanagh as my parents live there).

I had thought of just leaving the original headsail for the season but the reefing will make sailing easier on my own, although the bomb doors on the sonata help as I can leave a jib ready to hoist.

For pure racing surely you wouldn't use a roller reefing system at all would you? I thought the hanked on genny would give better luff tension and slightly better performance. None of the J24s in the club have roller reefing headsails.

Thanks for the info on the sailmakers here, I'll speak to them about getting a luff tape sewn in.
 

BobPrell

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If your family are sailing with you - how much can they help?

We started cruising in a 21ft Hartley trailer sailer. 2 adults, 3 children 5yo, 3yo and six months.

My partner was interested in the outing but not the technicalities of sailing. We very quickly found that if she did all the steering, that I could do everything else the way I wanted it done. She felt more in control of what was happening, and could bring to my attention any concerns she had about the kids' safety. She was contributing something important without having to learn a whole lot of esoteric stuff.

We had a lot of fun.

I have a rant available, about the tyranny of racing attitudes and methods over pleasure sailing, if peeps want to read it.
 

gunman

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If your family are sailing with you - how much can they help?

We started cruising in a 21ft Hartley trailer sailer. 2 adults, 3 children 5yo, 3yo and six months.

My partner was interested in the outing but not the technicalities of sailing. We very quickly found that if she did all the steering, that I could do everything else the way I wanted it done. She felt more in control of what was happening, and could bring to my attention any concerns she had about the kids' safety. She was contributing something important without having to learn a whole lot of esoteric stuff.

We had a lot of fun.

I have a rant available, about the tyranny of racing attitudes and methods over pleasure sailing, if peeps want to read it.

How much can they help?:confused:

They could sit in the cabin and play cards I suppose:D

Last year in my L17 I asked SWMBO to keep the boat heading dead into the eye of the wind on the outboard while I hoisted the mainsail. "Look at the hawk and keep us heading dead into the wind". Result was me near ending up in the lake as we took many a course, none of them into the eye of the wind:D. I have tried getting my father to hold the tiller and keep us on a tack while I did something else on the boat, similar results were had as above as we would end up performing an unwanted tack while I tried to hoist a jib.

Simple instructions can be followed such as "pull the blue rope", but as for the control and navigation of the boat, that's staying under my control. My kids are 7yrs, 4yrs and 6 months. The 7yr old is taking a sailing course this year at the yacht club so I'm hoping he gets interested and wants to help more.

My wife loves being out on the water, both sailing and under power (small cabin cruiser) but hasn't a lot of interest learning the ropes, so to speak.
 

Quandary

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Apologies, some roller reefing systems like Furlex have a removable drum, I forgot that yours did not, all the boats I raced except the very first one used headfoils but not roller furling ones until the last two. I currently (occasionally) race a boat with a TD Furlex and furling sails from North but the drum is below deck so you have full hoist and relatively easy changing. I know there are people still using hanked on sails, they still seem to be popular in Oz. for instance. It is usually considered much easier to do an efficient headsail change with a twin groove foil as you spend a lot less time on the foredeck. I would not rule out the chances of beating those Js on handicap in a well sailed Sonata and it will give you a great kick when you do it. Find a couple of keen young dinghy sailors for crew but they will expect you to have the right sails or they will not come back.
I would still advise sticking with what you have got while you get used to the boat and find out what you want/need.
Sailing seems to come with an urge to spend money, we all do it, it is hard to resist and far too easy to rationalize in your head. The one thing not to skimp on in a performance boat though are the sails.
 

gunman

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Thanks, I sailed the boat for about 6 weeks or so at the end of last season, as I was essentially single handed I ended up sailing on the main alone as I couldn't operate main and genoa myself. So what I want...... a sytem which will allow me to sail on main\foresail. I could reroute the genoa sheets to the cockpit and use blocks for gearing but then that leaves me with the hoisting issue, I could leave it under the bomb doors before I set off, but what about lowering it?

If I want to get into racing I'd be better off crewing on one of the J24's as I have no race experience to date. This however has it's own issues as racing is done on weeknights and I am really only there at weekends. There has been talk of races for 'cruisers' in the club (I know the sonata isn't a cruiser) using the portmouth yardstick handicap, J24's would probably be excluded as they have their own race calendar.

Trust me, I don't have the urge to spend money, I am trying to work out the cheapest way I can fit my roller reefing, hence why I was looking for sail slugs to fit so I could use the existing genoa, I know it's not the best solution but any solution where I can sail with a headsail is better than none at all. If money were no object I would have a new Goacher sail flying, it is however an object for this year at least.:(

There were 2 genoas with the boat one was torn at the luff, I may investigate getting it repaired and a new luff rope sewn in.
 

Lakesailor

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Are you on a pontoon or a swinging mooring?

If you're on a pontoon motor to a buoy and stream from it. Then you can set your sails head to wind easily. If the wind allows you can fall away from the buoy and sail off or if there are other moorings behind you can motor away and bear off onto a tack when clear.
Rig a slip line to the mooring that you can let go from the cockpit.

I use this method all the time.

You can still sail using both sails even with the coachroof winches and cleats. Provided you can loose them easily from the helm position if you need to. If I remember correctly the Sonata cockpit isn't too long and using the tiller extension you should be able to slip forward to attend to the sheets. Even a couple of bungee cord loops from each coaming to slip onto the tiller from the windward side will keep you heading in roughly the right direction whilst you play with the genoa sheets. If you round up, it's no big deal, you aren't racing.

Before I sorted my current boat there were no sheet cleats and I was holding the main and headsail sheets and tiller all the time. That was a bit tiring.

Just give it a whirl and plan any changes that make themselves obvious.
 

gunman

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I am on a swinging mooring, when I am truly on my own I do as you say (when I was in the L17), I hoist both sails, loop a long length of rope throught the top eye on the mooring bouy and bring back to the cockpit. I use the back jib technique to bring the bow round onto a broad reach then set it to sail away, pulling the looped rope through the mooring bouy to release it. Problem when we all go out is that SWMBO and the young kids like me to bring the boat into the jetty to board. I suppose I could motor back out to my mooring;).

With the sonata it is handy because you can hank on the jib and stow it below the bomb doors on the fore deck. When underway on the main you can hoist it from the cockpit. Problem was always that it was too hard to manage from the coachroof but I think you have all given me the solution for that.

The boat is out of the water now so obviously if I am fitting the reefing I'll need to do it before it gets lifted in.
 

richardsn9

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I converted a Sonata for single handed sailing, and did some longish offshore passages in her to/from the Netherlands.

I fitted roller furling to her, and simply had the luff of largest genoa retaped as has been suggested. Due the the fractional rig, you need to keep loads of tension on the backstay, otherwise it does not furl properly, but once I had the knack of it, it worked well.
I fitted a tillerpilot, which makes all the difference. I also fitted simple lazyjacks using cord, tying them off at the base of the spreaders, which made sail handling easier. I used small cheek blocks next to the after genoa blocks to belay the sheet until I had time to use the winch. Often you can get away with a quick luff, and hauling in the genoa with one hand as it flaps, before bearing away.

I hope you enjoy it. She was a super boat to sail. The main reason I changed boats was that I found the motion too wearing on the longer offshore passages, which is hardly her fault as she was never really designed for these.
 

gunman

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Can I ask where you located the drum for the reefing? There is a Duette 23 in the club which has roller reefing with the drum within the compartment under the bomb doors. I need to track down the owner to have a closer look as I'd like mine fitted in similar fashion, although I'm not sure if the sonata and duette has the same setup in that area. I'll hopefully be visisting the boat at the weekend so I can get a better look.
 

BobPrell

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How much can they help?:confused:

They could sit in the cabin and play cards I suppose:D
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.
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Simple instructions can be followed such as "pull the blue rope", but as for the control and navigation of the boat, that's staying under my control. My kids are 7yrs, 4yrs and 6 months. The 7yr old is taking a sailing course this year at the yacht club so I'm hoping he gets interested and wants to help more.

My wife loves being out on the water, both sailing and under power (small cabin cruiser) but hasn't a lot of interest learning the ropes, so to speak.

I have come across one guy who races his trailer sailer, he steers, wife is crew, she has to follow orders instantly, two children have to stay below and play with toys lest they get in the way or upset the trim of the boat. I think this is rather sad, how do guys get away with this sort of stuff? If they want to stay below, that's fine, they are out of the way and safe.

To get back to you, sounds like you really do need an autopilot. Remember your 4yo is already (I'll bet!) using electronics routinely, so they could soon learn how to press the "tack" button when told, and the course +10 and +1 buttons.

Your wife can keep care of 6mo and exercise general situational awareness, non-sailing women are very good at it, often bringing to our attention things that are a developing concern, that we have gotten complacent about.

Maybe using a smaller jib would help. As Lakey has suggested, luffing to take the pressure off a sail while you sheet in is good, you can even steer downwind for a while and sheet in.

If you keep the family on side, they will all probably want to get involved later on. They may not want to if problems arise that you are not ready to cope with. To develop the ability to cope, perhaps you could practise sailing alone, with a backup sailor with you to help you if something goes wrong, not to assist you to sail normally.

Good luck and remember it should be fun, most of the time.
 

PeterR

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If you are buying a new genoa think seriously about what you are going to do with the boat. The Sonata has a fairly big rig for a small boat when using the standard 140% overlap No1 genoa. It was designed for racing with 4 heavy blokes sitting on the gunwhale. Duettes and Horizen 23s had smaller rigs and heavier keels. If you fit a 140% overlap genoa on a roller you will only be able to use it unrolled upwind in less than about 10knots when single handed. Above that you will have to role it and as the forestay is always fairly slack due to the in-line spreaders on a fractional rig it will role even worse than big headsails normally do. You will end up with an awful shaped sail for most of the time. You will find a 105% non-overlapping headsail to be much more use. OK it will be slightly slower off-wind in light airs but much faster upwind in almost all conditions when you are single handed. You will not need the winches to tack it and if you must fit a roller you will only need it to store the sail, not for reefing.

I sailed my Sonata across the North Sea and Channel every year single-handed and I never put the number one up for a cruise and I could still sail past most boats up to about 30ft.
 

Lakesailor

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The advice you've been given so far seems to have all the seeds of a solution.
I was down at Ferry Nab yesterday and a Sonata was on the jetty.
There is a cheek block on the gunwhale. It looks like he has it set up to take the sheet from the genoa car into that block.
Here's the pic.

Sonata%20cockpit.jpg
 

gunman

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Thats an interesting pic lakesailor, mine has the cheek blocks on the gunwhale but not the cam cleats (which would be easy fitted). I also notice there are only 2 winches on the coachroof and it seems to be fitted with rope clutches.

I had considered fitting a furling drum and swivel but I don't know how possible that is on the sonata as thre isn't really anywhere to mount it on the deck.
 

Kelpie

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Winches my kind of boat is till in production. I saw a nearly new one recently and noted that they have not fitted sheet winches on the gunwhale just 2 halyard winches on the cabin top. I think this is to save money. I find that a cheap winch is cheaper than a rope clutch so I have 4 halyard winches.

Just to pick up on this point, can I have some cheap Ozzie winches please? I've found you get little change from £100 for a small winch, whereas you can get a very good double clutch for less than £70- and down to about £45 if you go for a simple cam-action version.

About autopilots- we added an ST1000+ last year and it has been fantastic. Admittedly a Sonata may need a faster response time so you should look into what model to get.
I was watching an ST1000 on eBay, just out of curiosity, the other day. Went for over £250, and that was with some of the fittings missing (they'd stayed with the boat). Quite daft considering Gaelforce currently have them brand new at £270. Not everything you see on eBay is a bargain I suppose.
 

richardsn9

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In answer to the question about the position of the furling gear drum, mine was mounted just above deck level - you had to wiggle the forestay a bit to get the bomb doors open - but there might be room to mount it below deck level, depending on the type. However, I prefer the more direct pull on the reefing line, and also you can see what is going on if there is a riding turn etc.
The overall loss of sail area is negligible unless you are racing. As mentioned above, in cruising mode, especaiily with kids etc, the main issue tends to be too much sail rather than not enough.
If you are fitting an autohelm, I found the ST1000 to be more than ample. You may need to upgrade your battery to cope with the extra load, I used a 105 ah one, and check your charging coil on the outboard is working efficiently. I had a small solar panel fitted in front of the sliding hatch that meant the battery was always fully trickle charged.
 

gunman

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Here you go:D

15082010224.jpg


Not sure why they're called bomb doors, maybe because they burst open when you hoist a sail?

That was my worry about mounting the drum above deck, would I be able to open the bomb doors?
 

BobPrell

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Here you go:D

Not sure why they're called bomb doors, maybe because they burst open when you hoist a sail?

That was my worry about mounting the drum above deck, would I be able to open the bomb doors?
Thanks so much. I had a boat with a motor in a well, with two doors. I called them bomb-doors even though they opened inwards/up rather than down/out.

The yacht has some interesting features I havn't seen elsewhere, like that bow casting which looks a lot kinder to rope than the usual bow roller built up of plate.

The pulpit with 3 legs and a ring, I would be guessing if I said that was for spinnaker launching.

Olewill has said the Sonata was available in Oz. I don't recall seeing anything exactly like yours, various yachts have been remoulded and rebadged over the years of course.
 

William_H

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Winches

For Robwelton www.biasboating.com.au have a Cleveco Murray #14 winch on special for A$ 89.95
with drum diameter 63mm height 90mm Bronze base plastic drum and top. (cat. 1597)
At currently 62 pence per A$ you can take off 10% oz tax but add VAT etc on that. The company is nation wide and used to mail order.
Also try www.whitworths.com.au they have the same winch for same price. Also nation wide and reliable.

Gunman thanks for the photo of bomb doors. On my trailer sailer I have an anchor locker cover which I modified (cut up the middle) to this arrangement.(Previously one piece) My forestay however does not go into the locker but forward of the locker.
I cut out rope holes between the lids and find the anchor hatch ideal for spinnacker stowage and launching.

If I ever went for furling (in a fit of madness and old age) I would move the forestay into the locker so drum could be below decks. My experience with other peoples furling leaves me wanting electric drive even for a tiny boat. I guess I would have to design and build it myself. olewill
 
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