Mainsail hoisting problem

skyflyer

skyflyer

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I'm a bit of a newbie so forgive my lack of correct terminology.

The mainsail is attached to a dozen or so plastic 'runners' that slide up a groove in the rear of the mast. Some of these runners are black and some are white.

We are having difficulty fully raising the sail, and having checked the obvious things ( catching battens on lazyjack lines, reefing lines not paid out, halyard free etc) have concluded that these runners are sticking in their 'track'.

Predictably the problem is worse if there is any sort of wind pressure on the sail, so motoring dead into wind is our best shot at it.

However we get to the point where the sail cannot be raised any further without serious winching, which makes me very nervous - how much tension CAN you put on a winch before it departs the coach roof!

We have tried lubricating the runners with silicone spray but of course this isnt really getting to the top of the mast!

So - questions:
Do these plastic pieces 'wear out'; will replacement improve things?
What is the best thing to use to clean/lubricate track?
Do we have to get up the mast to clean/lubricate track?
ANy other suggestions?

Thanks
 
We had exactly the same problem and silicon spray eventually solved it. Just spray it as far up the track as you can each time you hoist for a while and eventually it carry up on the slides and lubricate to whole track. Be careful about overspray getting on your decks though it can make them really slippy :rolleyes:

Ours flies up and falls down even with a bit of pressure in the sail. Don't pay silly money at chandlers for the silicone spray. Look for dry lubricant at your local Home Hardware store, sold for curtain tracks and drawer runners. Cheap as chips and the same stuff. :cool:

Don't worry you are very unlikely to rip your winch off the coachroof. Unless your boat is very lightly built (or badly built) something else will inevitably give first. Probably the halyard would part at the shackle or a turning block would break first. More likely the sail would just go up the mast eventually!
 
make sure kickers off or topping lift is on and your into wind first.

if it's a big main it may need to be sweated from the mast to pull it up.... rather than winched from the back of the boat

Mr sheen or some sort of furniture polish helps the slides in the mast to run free.

another thought is... you may have a few halyards / reefing lines twisted within the mast causing friction as you pull up.
 
Think yourselves lucky you have sliders. Have you ever tried feeding a bolt rope up the mast as you raise the sail?

That's all we had when we got our boat, and it was a 2 man job to get the sail up. Since fitting sliders, it flies up single handed, to leave the other crew to helm the boat or look after the jib.

If it really is the sliders sticking, perhaps they are the wrong size for the mast, particularly as they are a mixed assortment?

But do check the obvious that the kicker or main sheet isn't holding the boom down too low.

If like me you are new to sailing, is there anyone more experienced near you hwo can take a look?
 
AIDY said:
Mr sheen or some sort of furniture polish helps the slides in the mast to run free.
Click to expand...

FWIW I would NEVER use anything but a silicone spray. grease of any sort (including WD40) will attract dirt & make matters worse.

With a bit of fiddling you can hoist some silicone impregnated rag in the groove held between two slides suitably tied together etc.

It might even be worth just trying to hoist a slide by itself - with suitable down haul obviously - to see if the slide will go all the way up.

I usually spray my track at the start of each season with Silicone spray.
 
Don't panic, we had exactly the same problem at first with Brigantia - no amount of heaving would get the main that last few inches to the top of the mast

Silicon spray is definitely, as suggested, the answer. As already suggested, keep lubcricating the track and bullets as far as you can reach. That, coupled with regular use, will almost certainly free it up - suddenly, on the fourth day out, ours shot up to the top for the first time no bother at all
 
Skyflyer - Your profile does not say what type of boat you have or where you are... both of these might help.

In the absence of this I will say that with a Selden mast (for example) there are at least five slightly different plastic slider cross-sections depending on the luff groove dimensions. Even a 4mm, a 5mm and a 5.5mm wide luff groove take different sliders.

In the chandleries you will only generally find two sliders - small or large! (or that's what I have found anyway).

Check out the document entitled 'Sailmakers guide' at the link below and see the different sliders for different luff grooves.
http://www.seldenmast.com/page.cfm?id=6739

Bainbridge International near Fareham also do a similar section of sliders (which match exactly for size)
www.sail-making.com/dbimgs/page78_79_80us.pdf



Secondly - Do you have any full length battens at all? Even perhaps a small full length one at the top? If so then a similar luff slider but with a couple of wheels built in to keep it away from the mast can help.. I'll post a link when I find what I mean.
 
Do these plastic pieces 'wear out'; will replacement improve things?


Yes. They can also be damaged with no apparent cause.

Can they turn or twist in the groove enough to cause extra friction? If so, the simple cure is to replace them.
 
If this is the first hoisting of the sail since you bought her and the mast has recently been raised it is possible that the luff groove may have been pressed when in the horizontal position, closing the slot a little.
I second the suggestion for the single slider to be attached with a tail and taken to the top of the mast to eliminate this possibility. Sometimes too the mast bend can cause more friction,but as you are using sliders this is not likely here.
Ref the possible twisted internal halyards,try slackening any that are under tension,like the Spinnaker halyard or, if you have one, the jib halyard,(assuming you don't have a furler with its own halyard). As each halyard is slackened try the hoist again.

ianat182
 
The reason I suggested that there are many different sizes of slider is that a previous owner may have changed all the slides and just bought something that looked like it fitted.

Corretion to previous post... It is Rutgerson that make the slides with wheels that take the pressure off the slide if you have a batten that is not full (as in all the way to the mast) but reaches the bolt rope and the sailmaker used an ordinary slide at that point.

Search for parts 1525-11 and the shackle 1490 to match as examples.

http://www.rutgerson.se/UserFiles/1...Hardware Catalogue Version 4_issue 2_2010.pdf
 
As well as lubrication all the way up the mast track, the sheaves (pulleys/rollers) at the top of the mast, may be worn or stuck in one position.
Mine were and it can cause this problem you have.
As the sail became heavier as it went up, the sheave could not rotate and too much strain was having to be put on the whole shebang to get the sail up.
New rollers/sheaves and it was easy.

Shebang.... my terminology for all the gear involved :)
 
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I would start by taking the slides off the sail, take them home and clean them up, then you will be able to see if any are worn, yes they do ware up.
Try a sail maker for new slides, take an old one as a sample, I bought 15 last year for a fiver.
Its also possible that the haliyard is jumping off or jamming on the mast sheeve, or if the sheeve is nylon it could be burnt flat in places.
 
With a bit of fiddling you can hoist some silicone impregnated rag in the groove held between two slides suitably tied together etc.

It might even be worth just trying to hoist a slide by itself - with suitable down haul obviously - to see if the slide will go all the way up.

Had this one right. Why wait by raising and lowering the sail over the course of a few outings? Just lube the whole track properly with the halyard and a downhaul (another line to pull the halyard down once you raise it). Just make up a piece of cloth, spray it, stick it in the mast groove/slot, connect the halyard and the downhaul and run it up and down a few times. And buy new sail slugs and you're done.

Good advice about checking the sheaves at the top of the mast, too, but wait to do this slot cleaning first, you may not have sheave issues.
 
I don't think anyone's suggested you check if the mast is straight. A little bend aft may be acceptable (we don't know your boat), but if there is any forward bend that WILL make the mainsail a devil to hoist.
 
Thanks all;

the sail is fully battened and was new 2009.
We are sweating it - two of us, best part of 160kg - nothing!
I think flattened sheave or twisted halyards unlikely as you can put a good load on end of halyard and pull in and it winds up smoothly, no 'bumping' (on the 'flat' of the sheave, or snagging.
Mast has a natural rake backwards - standing rigging renewed this season.

I'll try the rag thing first, then new sliders!

Cheers all
 
Are you sure the topping lift is tight enough? Its much easier to hoist if the topping lift raises the boom a bit. If you can raise the boom in its slot (if it has one) that can help too.
 
Topping lift - good question! How tight should it be? I haul down with my weight (90kg) and cleat it off. We have a vang type kicker for what its worth by the way.
 
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