main sail hoisting

[Minchsailor]

+1 for reducing friction. When I had a new FB main made for my boat last winter I had fitted a low friction mast track from Tides Marine. I was surprised at the difference it has made. I can now hand hoist the main to almost to the mast head (limited by the fact that I am not heavy enough to do the last bit!), and it falls immediately into the lazy jacks without any pulling down.

Is it a possibility to use a longer halyard, going through a turning block back to a primary winch at the cockpit? I have one of my halyards longer, just for the possibility of making it easier to haul a person up the mast.

 

[Tranona]

Everything I have read on this thread has confirmed the wisdom of my decision to have in mast furling mainsail on my new boat. Everything done from the comfort of the cockpit with minimum of effort.

Appreciate probably not an alternative for those who already have a conventional mast, but anybody thinking of buying a "retirement" boat should consider in mast. Plenty of choice of boats on the market fitted with good systems.

 

[westernman]

I have 6:1 for the main hoist, and 24:1 for the final tensioning on mine. It is 800 ft^2 and has a heavy gaff on it. The loads are very reasonable, but it is miles and miles of string.


View attachment 56099

I should have added, that we have almost no friction at all. The sail is loosely attached to the mast, the gaff has a big saddle, which does not really touch the mast during the hoist (the attachment point for the top pulley moves it out and away from the mast a few inches, and the attachment point on the gaff is also a few inches from the mast) and the blocks are big so the halyard runs very freely.

The main part is double ended. So you hoist it most way with one and, and then finish off with a 4:1 tackle on the other end to get the luff nice and tight.

 

[Poignard]

Yes but you've got a proper​ boat ............

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Another one for WinchRite.

Very large people have been hoisted up my friends mast on an HR 42, using my Winchrite.

I had to have a minor shoulder op' a couple of seasons back. To enable me to keep sailing I purchased the Winchrite.

It also makes light work for Mrs S. to take in the genoa sheets and to furl the genoa and sharing the practical stuff has made life simpler for me too.

S.

 

[dunedin]

I agree that silicone sprays etc to reduce friction is key - and a power winch ideal if have the budget, space and power.

But as some have said, is there any change of technique that would help without new gear?
We never use the winch to hoist the mainsail (and we have an electric winch, generally unused). With two on board it is autopilot on and one on deck at the mast and one tailing at the stopper in the cockpit.
By swigging the halyard at the mast it is easy to get the sail up, with the tailer simply taking up the slack after each pull. Pulling outwards and slightly downwards, the leverage is very powerful - but importantly it is also quick which reduces total workload. We then only use the winch to tension the last foot or so of halyard

 

[alan_d]

I applaud your reluctance to hang up your sea boots! I note that the Cruising Association Magazine is going to be focussing in the future on adaptations to keep people sailing longer.

To find a solution to your own problem it may be worth considering whether your difficulty is caused by you having reduced endurance, reduced strength or, dare I mention it, sub-optimal technique. Or is it a combination of all three?
[Snip]
There are a range of solutions ranging from no cost (technique) to very high cost (electric winches). I hope these thoughts are helpful in finding the solution(s) that suit you.

I take it you have a commercial interest in this area, Graham, but as an interested bystander I found your post balanced, comprehensive and helpful - qualities not always found in contributions to this group.

 

[ex-Gladys]

One simple question, have you tried topping the boom well up (20-30 deg above horizontal)? I've found that to be the secret for a lot of issues after you've got everything nicely lubed...

 

[Norman_E]

Could you give an approximate idea of cost for the Battcar system per car?

I cannot remember the cost, I bought the original cars for the battens from Wilkinson Sails http://wilkinsonsails.co.uk/ Cindy was very helpful in finding me the correct ones for my mast slot. When I had a new mainsail made in Turkey, the sailmakers were Moby Marine in Marmaris (now Elvstrom) and they supplied the intermediate battcars.
As someone else has said, attaching the intermediate cars them with webbing instad of works well.

 

[lw395]

One simple question, have you tried topping the boom well up (20-30 deg above horizontal)? I've found that to be the secret for a lot of issues after you've got everything nicely lubed...

+1!

A lot of people sweat at hoisting the main with the outhaul on, which is loading up the lower slides. Topping the boom up well above horizontal is a good way of losing clew tension and unloading the lower slides.

As others have said, friction is the main enemy.
On most yachts there is gross friction at the mast foot, along the deck and through organisers, and through the clutch.
If you have a halyard that exits the mast through a slot 8ft up, and you can pull straight down and park the halyard in a cleat on the side of the mast that is a big help. You then take the tail through the deck hardware with no load on it.
Some low friction material to stop the horizontal bits of halyard touch the deck, or raising the organisers a few mm can make a big difference.
A 2:1 system may allow a thinner halyard, reducing friction.
A ball-bearing sheave at the mast head is good.
Lubing and cleaning the track, slides etc should go without saying, I find a rag soaked in cheap furniture polish done often is better than magic sprays used sparingly.
Also old rope goes stiff, and takes a lot of work to get it around that 180deg bend at the top sheave.

But in the long run, in-mast furling is the easiest way. It is not my idea of what a yacht should be like, but I respect those who choose it and use it when others might be saying 'it's only a one hour leg, not worth wrestling with the sail coat etc etc.'

Other options include a smaller boat or a fit crewperson....

 

[owen-cox]

I was thinking on reading this that maybe a battery drill could be used to wind the winch and a google search brought up this video which looks like a great idea and cheaper than an electric winch conversion and can also be used to do other things as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5_Nn2o-jBg

 

[ditchcrawler]

The 28v Milwaukee drill will do the job, but is is expensive and cumbersome and not made for salt water environment.

I tried other drills but even my expensive Makita is no good.Not enough torque, and the Black and Decker was useless.

If you are going down that path you might as well get the WinchRite which is made for the job.

 

[GrahamD]

I take it you have a commercial interest in this area, Graham, but as an interested bystander I found your post balanced, comprehensive and helpful - qualities not always found in contributions to this group.

Thanks for your kind comment, Alan. As the UK distributors of Pontos winches, we have had many conversations with boat owners in a similar position as the OP who want to know how our 4-speed winches might make their sail handling easier. My post summarises a few of the practical issues that have been raised in these conversations.

We find it helps if we can understand the problem before recommending a solution!