MAIB Update

[tome]

Those who have been following the previous thread may be interested in some updates

First, my MP Michael Mates wrote to the Transport Minister asking for an explanation of the 'statistics' quoted in the 2005 Annual Report, and has forwarded me this reply from Douglas Alexander

He also forwarded a reply from Stephen Meyer, Chief Inspector at MAIB

So a bit of a dead end but at least I've rattled a few cages via a good effort from my MP.

Meantime, I received today the spreadsheet I requested from MAIB of the underlying statistics which were quoted in their 2005 report (requested under the Freedom of Information Act)
Excel Spreadsheet

The major 'incidents' to which they refer are Grounding, Machinery breakdown, and Hazardous incidents which account for the vast majority of the statistics. The next step is to break down this information to see how many duplicates of information are included. Doing it in bite sized requests should mean that they cannot use cost as a barrier to releasing information

 

[bedouin]

That sheet is itself very interesting

What is Machy Bd?

 

[rickp]

Machinery Breakdown?

Rick

 

[bedouin]

Good call

Very depressing

 

[Sailfree]

Keep up the good work.

I am fed up with the way so many people earn so much money in the field of creating/identifying problems when there is no problem in the first place.

 

[starboard]

A bit of info regarding RNLI lifeboat launches in my area.....maybe this is now common around the coast and a good reason for the "over inflated" number of lifeboat launches.

My old station here on the West coast of Scotland always averaged about 35 call outs per year when we had the Waveny and subsequent Arran class lifeboat...........Now the station not only has a "Trent" class ALB All weather lifeboat but also an "ILB" inshore lifeboat.........now when the boat is launched 99% of the time both boats seem to launch, the average number of "incidents" is still around 35 but as both boats now seem to proceed to the incident "WHY"......the number of lifeboat launches are shown as 70!!!!!!!! If this is the norm around the coast it is not suprising that the number of Lifeboat launches are shown by the RNLI as increasing!!!!!!

Paul.

 

[bilbobaggins]

Aha! Good work, Tome, to get that out of the Minister for Transport. And our thanks to the Rt Hon Michael Mates MP.

It is noteworthy that we/you only started to get other than 'blocking manoeuvres' when an MP who was *also* a Privy Councillor ( the 'Right Hon' descriptive ) asked the question on paper. That's the way our British 'string-pulling' system works - as previously detailed - and it may well be useful to future issues to remember that fact. Especially when the next MAIB Annual report comes out.....

[ QUOTE ]
.....And far more effective is this - get a Privy Councillor to ask the Question in writing. The convention in Whitehall seems to be that, if an ordinary MP asks a question, the reply can come from a middle-ranking civil servant - and that is ultimately deniable as being 'beyond that individual's remit and experience'.

However, a Reply to a Privy Councillor 'may end up in The Palace' and that is not deniable. As the Reply is attributable to the responsible Minister of State, it is crafted by a very senior CS bod, whose promotion - his job, even - is on the line if he lands the Minister in it, whether by omission or commission.

So getting a PC to write is valuable.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Note the reference to 'key stakeholders'. I wonder who they include......

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[gandy]

On that spreadsheet, were all the "incidents" reported to the MAIB, or did they collect the information actively? I wonder how many capsize, breakdown and maybe some other categories were really very trivial (capsizes at dinghy regattas?)

 

[bedouin]

I believe the figures were extracted from the standard reports from the Coastguard to MAIB

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Some questions that arise include:

How many of the incidents relate to boardsailers?
How many of the incidents relate to canoes/kayaks
How many of the incidents relate to PWC?
How many of the incidents relate to rowing craft?
How mnay of the incidents relate to inflatable toys?
How is "Hazardous Incident" defined?
Of the fouled prop incidents how many were poorly (or un) marked pots or abandoned fishing gear.
Of the grounding, contact, collision, MOB and capsize figures how many related to racing?
Does machnery breakdown specifically represent engine failure, given that an anchor capstan or sail winch is also a machine?

Other questions arise too, how mnay of the reported issues were on the lcoal boating lake?

 

[bedouin]

The next stage is to select a single week and put a further request under the FoI act for the reports for that week from which the information was extracted.

Note that the FoI act does not give you the right to ask questions - it gives you the right to ask for existing information. If you asked the questions you suggest then MCA could and would quite legitimately not give the answers - if you ask for a selection of the raw information then they must provide it.

 

[jamesjermain]

Congratulatios! Well dug!

 

[Oen]

Why is the RYA not getting involved here? My membership card says 'Promoting and Protecting Boating'...

 

[jamesjermain]

Who said they weren't?

 

[tome]

Have also discovered a report from Health & Safety Laboratory RMS/06/14 UK Water-Related Incident Database Gap Analysis

[ QUOTE ]
6.5.13 Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA)

Database: Vision

Background

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) is an executive agency of the Department for Transport (DfT) and the UK maritime regulatory authority. HM Coastguard is the MCA’s operational emergency organisation responsible for initiation and co-ordination of civil, maritime search and rescue activities. There are currently 19 Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centres (MRCCs) located around the Coast of the United Kingdom. These form a network of control centres which initiate and coordinate response to reports of maritime and coastal distress and use the Vision database for incident command and control purposes. The MCA introduced Boss in 2003 in order to interrogate the raw incident data held in Vision.

Database Summary

It was established that the MCA’s Vision database was set up in 2003, in order to improve coordination capability and to record information from which operational lessons could be learned. Vision is HM Coastguards incident co-ordinating and management system, and therefore contains the raw accident data. MRCC staff complete the SAR incident details and interpret the content at the various HM Coastguard offices rescue centres.

The accident data recorded utilises the information collected in the initial phone call, which leads to the MCA’s involvement in an incident. The data collected includes the date, time, nature and location of the event, and the age, gender and number of people involved. The information is entered through a mixture of free text and pre-categorised options.

The MCA’s Boss database is used to analyse the information held in Vision to identify 5 year trends. The Boss database records who is involved in an incident (i.e. the individual, vessel, or organisation), what is known about the incident, (i.e. what was witnessed, heard or experienced), where the incident occurred, when and what type of assistance is required. Boss provides the opportunity for dynamic incident review to authorised users using a web-based browser.

Boss also has the capability of generating a variety of high organisational level or local office level based pre-structured reports. These reports provide statistical information, operational performance information and certain levels of analysis.

The information held in the Vision database is shared with members of the NWSF, whilst the findings of the 5 year trends are reported to the Department for Transport. Database information is also available to authorised organisations.

Analysis of this information is also used to measure search and rescue performance.

The database contains 130,000 incident records in total, with approximately 11,000 incidents reported annually.

Some of the information is available to the public through the freedom of information act.

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[Oen]

[ QUOTE ]
Who said they weren't?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, James, there's nothing at all on their website and the RYA managers I've spoken to don't know about the issue. Does that answer your question?

 

[bilbobaggins]

[ QUOTE ]
Congratulations! Well dug!

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that Tome et al have done the 'investigative' bit, are we likely to see any fearless journos/editors popping their heads above the parapet, with a good, strong, campaigning public-interest story on this - published!

Andrew Bray, where are you on this?



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[jamesjermain]

They do, because I've spoken with them.

 

[bilbobaggins]

[ QUOTE ]
......because I've spoken with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

The power of the press unleashed! They'll be trembling in their freebie Sebago 'Docksiders' down at RYA Towers....

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[Oen]

Marvellous. As the RYA won't tell me themselves what they're doing, would you care to elucidate on their behalf? And will it be more effective than their actions on red diesel (achieved nothing) or marina fees or two stroke outboards (too difficult/can't be bothered)?