Jeremy_W
New member
AND YOUR POINT IS?[NM]
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MacGregor 26X seaworthy?
- Thread starter schilde
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Jeremy_W
New member
Not dual purpose
The point is that sailors are very concerned about the vessel as a sailing boat. So, if those concerns are well founded, the McG26 has failed as a dual purpose motor/sail yacht. Even if you assure us that it's the greatest power boat around [which it won't be because of the design concessions to sailing] that won't make it dual purpose.
As for "the buyers are all experts in power boating and in sailing" - well, I doubt that! Often the queries on this BB about the McG26 come from total beginners.
As for "anyone can criticise your boat":- pretty difficult as I don't have one. I've crewed for 19 years and 15,000+ miles which gives me a lot of exposure to a variety of yachts. You can check this BB if you like but, McGregor apart, all my comments about yachts are balanced "it's good at x, but bad at y" sort of remarks because that's how most yachts are.
The point is that sailors are very concerned about the vessel as a sailing boat. So, if those concerns are well founded, the McG26 has failed as a dual purpose motor/sail yacht. Even if you assure us that it's the greatest power boat around [which it won't be because of the design concessions to sailing] that won't make it dual purpose.
As for "the buyers are all experts in power boating and in sailing" - well, I doubt that! Often the queries on this BB about the McG26 come from total beginners.
As for "anyone can criticise your boat":- pretty difficult as I don't have one. I've crewed for 19 years and 15,000+ miles which gives me a lot of exposure to a variety of yachts. You can check this BB if you like but, McGregor apart, all my comments about yachts are balanced "it's good at x, but bad at y" sort of remarks because that's how most yachts are.
MadMac
New member
Re: Macgregor 26X Seaworthy!!
Sorry John but you are talking twaddle! Everyone knows the laws defining hull speed but they dont apply to aboat that can plane on the surface, even with the ballast in. next time you see a fleet of racing dinghys pass you by, have a think about your theory. Any Mac 26x owner will tell you that they are regulary achieivng 7.5 plus our top has been 8.4 verified by Log and GPS. PS do you still think the world is flat?
Sorry John but you are talking twaddle! Everyone knows the laws defining hull speed but they dont apply to aboat that can plane on the surface, even with the ballast in. next time you see a fleet of racing dinghys pass you by, have a think about your theory. Any Mac 26x owner will tell you that they are regulary achieivng 7.5 plus our top has been 8.4 verified by Log and GPS. PS do you still think the world is flat?
Gunfleet
New member
Re: Macgregor 26X Seaworthy!!
I'll ignore your provocative style and answer the substance. We weren't discussing sailboards or Hobie cats, we were discussing the MacGregor. The manual for the MacGregor says you shouldn't sail it unballasted. I looked it up. The MacGregor Association of New England reckon that unballasted the vessel is stable only to 60 degrees. In other words, in a gust the vessel may not self right unless ballasted. A prudent sailor will always sail a vessel of this type ballasted and if it's ballasted the rules for displacement vessels apply. If you sail yours at sea unballasted I suggest you buy a waterproof handhelf vhf. You will undoubtedly need it. The only question is when.
I'll ignore your provocative style and answer the substance. We weren't discussing sailboards or Hobie cats, we were discussing the MacGregor. The manual for the MacGregor says you shouldn't sail it unballasted. I looked it up. The MacGregor Association of New England reckon that unballasted the vessel is stable only to 60 degrees. In other words, in a gust the vessel may not self right unless ballasted. A prudent sailor will always sail a vessel of this type ballasted and if it's ballasted the rules for displacement vessels apply. If you sail yours at sea unballasted I suggest you buy a waterproof handhelf vhf. You will undoubtedly need it. The only question is when.
chippie
New member
Re: Macgregor 26X Seaworthy!!
Your theory regarding achievable speeds by displacement boats, (Hiscock) is for a traditional type hull forms as Hiscock's were. Where I think it runs into trouble is that modern shallow hull forms behave differently. The flat area in the aft sections of these hull often permit them to virtually plane when off the wind when in fact they are still a displacement vessel, or perhaps, more accurately both displacement and planing depending on point of sail etc.
I believe that the aspects of the hull form of the Macgregor that allow it to plane under power may also allow it to sail faster than the displacement/speed formula would tend to suggest.
I think anyone would be asking for trouble by sailing one without the ballast.
All IHMO.
Cheers.
Your theory regarding achievable speeds by displacement boats, (Hiscock) is for a traditional type hull forms as Hiscock's were. Where I think it runs into trouble is that modern shallow hull forms behave differently. The flat area in the aft sections of these hull often permit them to virtually plane when off the wind when in fact they are still a displacement vessel, or perhaps, more accurately both displacement and planing depending on point of sail etc.
I believe that the aspects of the hull form of the Macgregor that allow it to plane under power may also allow it to sail faster than the displacement/speed formula would tend to suggest.
I think anyone would be asking for trouble by sailing one without the ballast.
All IHMO.
Cheers.
G
Guest
Guest
Sailed in dinghies and cruisers etc up to 75ft over the past 20 yrs, done the channel the Irish Sea. Owned and used a MG26X for last four seasons.
Been out in the Mac in waters between Poole, Solent and Chichester with blows up to force 7. Sailed well reefed, motored at 6-7 kts with ballast and 9-10 kts without ballast in various sea states during these blows without any problems.
Would I take the Mac26X across to the Scillies? Well it would depend on a suitable weather window, a knowledgeable crew, good planning and preparation. Bit like any other boat really!!
Also sailed the Mac26X in Brittany and Ireland but cheated and trailered the boat over on the very seaworthy ferry, gosh what a versatile little powersailor she is
Cheers
So assuming you are the knowledgeable crew and you friendly skipper is a capable passage planner then I would suggest you may like to go for it!
FYI the Mac26X is sold under the CE RCD Group C - inshore waters, bays, estuaries and lakes at up to Force 6 etc.
hullaballoo
Been out in the Mac in waters between Poole, Solent and Chichester with blows up to force 7. Sailed well reefed, motored at 6-7 kts with ballast and 9-10 kts without ballast in various sea states during these blows without any problems.
Would I take the Mac26X across to the Scillies? Well it would depend on a suitable weather window, a knowledgeable crew, good planning and preparation. Bit like any other boat really!!
Also sailed the Mac26X in Brittany and Ireland but cheated and trailered the boat over on the very seaworthy ferry, gosh what a versatile little powersailor she is
Cheers
So assuming you are the knowledgeable crew and you friendly skipper is a capable passage planner then I would suggest you may like to go for it!
FYI the Mac26X is sold under the CE RCD Group C - inshore waters, bays, estuaries and lakes at up to Force 6 etc.
hullaballoo
MadMac
New member
Re: Macgregor 26X Seaworthy!!
Re read my post John where did I say i sailed the boat without ballast??? I would never and have never done that. Just accept your applying tradiitional thinking to a new concept in design. The boat sails/ planes at over 8 knots fact! with the ballast in!! ask any owner! Touched seven this weekend in a four off the east coast on genoa alone. Why would i make this up??
Re read my post John where did I say i sailed the boat without ballast??? I would never and have never done that. Just accept your applying tradiitional thinking to a new concept in design. The boat sails/ planes at over 8 knots fact! with the ballast in!! ask any owner! Touched seven this weekend in a four off the east coast on genoa alone. Why would i make this up??
Brierley
New member
Re: Macgregor 26X Seaworthy!!
I don't understand your comment. We regularly sailed our 26X (with full water ballast) at over 7 knots according to our GPS, last season, and easily got her up to 18 knots unballasted, with centreboard and rudders up. We're hoping to do better this year with a new jib and a bit more practice at setting sails.
Why the disbelief?
Brierley
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I don't understand your comment. We regularly sailed our 26X (with full water ballast) at over 7 knots according to our GPS, last season, and easily got her up to 18 knots unballasted, with centreboard and rudders up. We're hoping to do better this year with a new jib and a bit more practice at setting sails.
Why the disbelief?
Brierley
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MacMan
New member
McG 26X All about Balance
You would think Sailors would know about "Balance"
I have come late to this post and am really struggling to understand the vitriol poured out on what I consider to be a cleverly designed and extremely flexible boat.
Having just reviewed them all, many posts on would seem they broadly fall into two categories
Those who don’t own a MacGregor 26X and seem extraordinarily prejudiced against them. Much of their comment is misinformed or just plain wrong.
For example, yes under sail with the water ballast I can, in my Mac 26X reach 7/8 knots on a good point of sail. The hull speed calculation doe not apply when the boat is semi-planing and No you DO NOT need to uncouple the steering rods etc when switching from Sailing to high speed motoring.
And those by MacGregor owners and/or people with significant experience who seem to present a much more balance viewed.
The seem to relish it’s flexibility but know they need to sail the boat within it’s limititations. Like all good skippers I would suggest anyone evaluate boat, equipment and skipper/crew experience before departing on any trip.
(Personally with correct equipment and crew and a careful look at the weather I would be more than happy to set of to the Scillies on a MacGregor. I know the previous owner of my boat cruised around the Scillies for a couple of weeks)
I won’t bother repeating the lists of advantages that previous owners have posted here. Suffice to say that I think my boat is great ! And look forward to much more fun in it including a trip to the Channel Islands planned for later in the year)
I know my boat suits my circumstances well. I feel no need to rubbish other people’s choices – I hope their boats give them as much pleasure as I have already got out of mine.
I would just encourage anyone reading this considering buying/crewing a MacGregor 26 X to seek balanced informed opinion.
I still don't understand the vitriol. Lack of understanding ? Fear of something unknown ?
Fair winds to all fellow Sailors
(However should the winds fail I reserve the right to power past you at 18 knots ;-) )
And yes before anyone accuses me of cutting them up and spilling their G&T with my wash I would of course give you plenty of sea room !
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You would think Sailors would know about "Balance"
I have come late to this post and am really struggling to understand the vitriol poured out on what I consider to be a cleverly designed and extremely flexible boat.
Having just reviewed them all, many posts on would seem they broadly fall into two categories
Those who don’t own a MacGregor 26X and seem extraordinarily prejudiced against them. Much of their comment is misinformed or just plain wrong.
For example, yes under sail with the water ballast I can, in my Mac 26X reach 7/8 knots on a good point of sail. The hull speed calculation doe not apply when the boat is semi-planing and No you DO NOT need to uncouple the steering rods etc when switching from Sailing to high speed motoring.
And those by MacGregor owners and/or people with significant experience who seem to present a much more balance viewed.
The seem to relish it’s flexibility but know they need to sail the boat within it’s limititations. Like all good skippers I would suggest anyone evaluate boat, equipment and skipper/crew experience before departing on any trip.
(Personally with correct equipment and crew and a careful look at the weather I would be more than happy to set of to the Scillies on a MacGregor. I know the previous owner of my boat cruised around the Scillies for a couple of weeks)
I won’t bother repeating the lists of advantages that previous owners have posted here. Suffice to say that I think my boat is great ! And look forward to much more fun in it including a trip to the Channel Islands planned for later in the year)
I know my boat suits my circumstances well. I feel no need to rubbish other people’s choices – I hope their boats give them as much pleasure as I have already got out of mine.
I would just encourage anyone reading this considering buying/crewing a MacGregor 26 X to seek balanced informed opinion.
I still don't understand the vitriol. Lack of understanding ? Fear of something unknown ?
Fair winds to all fellow Sailors
(However should the winds fail I reserve the right to power past you at 18 knots ;-) )
And yes before anyone accuses me of cutting them up and spilling their G&T with my wash I would of course give you plenty of sea room !
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petery
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
I used to work for a European car importer. Our product rusted as fast or faster than much cheaper Japanese cars and our warranty costs were many times higher.
But having made the decision to buy our product - usually against the advice of the press and their friends - customers would never hear a word said againt their car.
They would feel stupid if they admitted they made the wrong decision. .. but I'm not saying that buying a McGregor 26X is the wrong decision. Just that the most 'balanced' advice on a particular boat will come IMHO from someone who has sailed in one - but doesn't actually own the boat.
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I used to work for a European car importer. Our product rusted as fast or faster than much cheaper Japanese cars and our warranty costs were many times higher.
But having made the decision to buy our product - usually against the advice of the press and their friends - customers would never hear a word said againt their car.
They would feel stupid if they admitted they made the wrong decision. .. but I'm not saying that buying a McGregor 26X is the wrong decision. Just that the most 'balanced' advice on a particular boat will come IMHO from someone who has sailed in one - but doesn't actually own the boat.
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Brierley
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
I think you're maybe missing the point. You don't know exactly WHY those people chose the car they did - their essential criteria may have absolutely nothing to do with the rust-proofing, though obviously it should be a consideration.
Hopefully they made the choice that was right for them, regardless of what other people thought.
MacMan didn't just extol all the virtues of the Mac, he also agreed that it wasn't a perfect sailing boat and that owners had to accept its limitations. That sounds far more balanced to me than those people who were slating it, having never even been on one and those who were implying that other posters were liars for stating actual facts!
It seems that many of those on this forum who sail lead-ballasted boats consider those to be the only 'real' yachts - bet we've sailed/motored our boat more in one season than many of them have on their boats in years, simply because our Mac IS so flexible.
I freely admit the Mac isn't "fantastic" at either motoring or sailing BUT it is a great compromise between the two and does both reasonably well which suits some of us! And it lets us go places where all the snooty 'real' yachties can't......(not saying all yachties are snooty, just that we can easily avoid the ones who are!!)
Brierley
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I think you're maybe missing the point. You don't know exactly WHY those people chose the car they did - their essential criteria may have absolutely nothing to do with the rust-proofing, though obviously it should be a consideration.
Hopefully they made the choice that was right for them, regardless of what other people thought.
MacMan didn't just extol all the virtues of the Mac, he also agreed that it wasn't a perfect sailing boat and that owners had to accept its limitations. That sounds far more balanced to me than those people who were slating it, having never even been on one and those who were implying that other posters were liars for stating actual facts!
It seems that many of those on this forum who sail lead-ballasted boats consider those to be the only 'real' yachts - bet we've sailed/motored our boat more in one season than many of them have on their boats in years, simply because our Mac IS so flexible.
I freely admit the Mac isn't "fantastic" at either motoring or sailing BUT it is a great compromise between the two and does both reasonably well which suits some of us! And it lets us go places where all the snooty 'real' yachties can't......(not saying all yachties are snooty, just that we can easily avoid the ones who are!!)
Brierley
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
What your range at 18 knots?
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What your range at 18 knots?
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MacMan
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
A good point - I admit as an owner I can't claim to be "unbiased" as such.
Personally if something/some is useless I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.
My last plumber was useless and I will happily tell anyone who cares to ask and I hope he goes out of business. My last bank was useless so I switched my account etc.
If I didn't like my Mac and/or it didn't suit my circumstances I would sell it. Which maybe I will do one day but I am very happy for now.
I am really concious that when I was looking a buying my Mac I saw a lot of (what I now know to be) ill informed comment and I wouldn't want that to put other people off.
In my last post I said
"I would just encourage anyone reading this considering buying/crewing a MacGregor 26 X to seek balanced informed opinion."
I stand by that. I am certainly not implying anyone should listen to my opinion alone. I wouldn't think it was sensible to listen any single opinion.
Something that set my mind at rest was requesting back copies of the reviews from PBP and ST - they were fair and reasonable if I recall correctly. The had some criticisms (as they have for most boats) but overall they didn't slate it in an unfair and ill-informed way like some people see the need to do.
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A good point - I admit as an owner I can't claim to be "unbiased" as such.
Personally if something/some is useless I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.
My last plumber was useless and I will happily tell anyone who cares to ask and I hope he goes out of business. My last bank was useless so I switched my account etc.
If I didn't like my Mac and/or it didn't suit my circumstances I would sell it. Which maybe I will do one day but I am very happy for now.
I am really concious that when I was looking a buying my Mac I saw a lot of (what I now know to be) ill informed comment and I wouldn't want that to put other people off.
In my last post I said
"I would just encourage anyone reading this considering buying/crewing a MacGregor 26 X to seek balanced informed opinion."
I stand by that. I am certainly not implying anyone should listen to my opinion alone. I wouldn't think it was sensible to listen any single opinion.
Something that set my mind at rest was requesting back copies of the reviews from PBP and ST - they were fair and reasonable if I recall correctly. The had some criticisms (as they have for most boats) but overall they didn't slate it in an unfair and ill-informed way like some people see the need to do.
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petery
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
The only (general) point I was trying to make is that I believe it's very difficult to get a totally unbiased opinion from proud owners or non-critical boat reviews (often written in conjunction with an owner).
I got real help and insight from a couple of guys who have sailed as crew for long voyages in the boat model I finally bought.
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The only (general) point I was trying to make is that I believe it's very difficult to get a totally unbiased opinion from proud owners or non-critical boat reviews (often written in conjunction with an owner).
I got real help and insight from a couple of guys who have sailed as crew for long voyages in the boat model I finally bought.
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Gunfleet
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
How far is the first serious wave?
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How far is the first serious wave?
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Chris_Robb
Well-known member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
Not far
Rather them than me. But we have all done stupid things in our lifes and thats what the RNLI is there for init?
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Not far
Rather them than me. But we have all done stupid things in our lifes and thats what the RNLI is there for init?
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Brierley
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
Oh I see. Yes, I guess that's true, it would be impossible to get a completely unbiased viewpoint from an owner, since they obviously chose their boat over whatever else was available!
However, I doubt many potential trailer-sailer buyers would have the luxury of being able to seek advice from people who have crewed on trailer-sailers without owning them ;-)
Brierley
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Oh I see. Yes, I guess that's true, it would be impossible to get a completely unbiased viewpoint from an owner, since they obviously chose their boat over whatever else was available!
However, I doubt many potential trailer-sailer buyers would have the luxury of being able to seek advice from people who have crewed on trailer-sailers without owning them ;-)
Brierley
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petery
New member
Re: McG 26X All about Balance
The 2002 original post was from a 'worried' potential McGregor crew member - so I take your point about the difficulty in finding someone who's crewed in a McGregor.
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The 2002 original post was from a 'worried' potential McGregor crew member - so I take your point about the difficulty in finding someone who's crewed in a McGregor.
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Madguy
New member
It amazes me how many people rubbish the Macgregor Sail/Power boats but havnt ever been on one.
An unsinkable sailboat that even with a hole drilled into the hull and flooded can still float to appox 6 inches below the rub strip and still sail at 3 knots,with a water ballast system which makes it impossible to turn over yet when empty is less than a ton in wieght and very easy to trailer,can be launched and retreived from the water and back onto the trailer single handed in less than 5 minutes sounds damn good to me..
in fact it sounded so good i bought one..i sail at Rutland Water, UK, and own a lovely mac26s, many of the guys have 26s the 26x and a 26m.
Ive taken mine to north Wales and sailed/powered through a force 7 in a 2.5 mtr swell.. i wont say it was the most pleasurable experience of my life but i dont know if i would enjoy that on any sail boat...but at least i had the engine to get me in safely..
all i will say is....dont knock it until you try it...if your a die hard belt and braces man then you probly wont like anything that isnt wood and doesnt need varishing 3 times a year...if any one wants to find out what there really like fell free to let me know and if you want to come up to Rutland your welcome to crew (be very lazy) for the day to see whaat its like..
Until then remeber. you can knock them all you like but there still the best selling trailer sailer in the US.
Have fun
madguy
An unsinkable sailboat that even with a hole drilled into the hull and flooded can still float to appox 6 inches below the rub strip and still sail at 3 knots,with a water ballast system which makes it impossible to turn over yet when empty is less than a ton in wieght and very easy to trailer,can be launched and retreived from the water and back onto the trailer single handed in less than 5 minutes sounds damn good to me..
in fact it sounded so good i bought one..i sail at Rutland Water, UK, and own a lovely mac26s, many of the guys have 26s the 26x and a 26m.
Ive taken mine to north Wales and sailed/powered through a force 7 in a 2.5 mtr swell.. i wont say it was the most pleasurable experience of my life but i dont know if i would enjoy that on any sail boat...but at least i had the engine to get me in safely..
all i will say is....dont knock it until you try it...if your a die hard belt and braces man then you probly wont like anything that isnt wood and doesnt need varishing 3 times a year...if any one wants to find out what there really like fell free to let me know and if you want to come up to Rutland your welcome to crew (be very lazy) for the day to see whaat its like..
Until then remeber. you can knock them all you like but there still the best selling trailer sailer in the US.
Have fun
madguy
macsail
New member
My 26M sailing at over 10 knots..he he he eh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSV1NpFn8Uc
and of course summertime on the Saint Lawrence 17foot tides and 3 to 5 knot currents..fun...but its not a real sailboat its a Winnebateau!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xe_hVKWh-g
Québec1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSV1NpFn8Uc
and of course summertime on the Saint Lawrence 17foot tides and 3 to 5 knot currents..fun...but its not a real sailboat its a Winnebateau!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xe_hVKWh-g
Québec1