lucky to have ybw

[masterofnone]

Checked out some other recommended sites around the world. We appear to have the most active internet forum. Interesting to see the decline in popularity in sailing in america as reported on www.onpassage.com 4m to2.4m in only 5 yrs and yet all report marina fees continue upwards, (supply and demand?). Boats appear to be substantially cheaper on east coast.

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[pragmatist]

Perhaps they're all off becoming evangelical Christians (and voting for Bush) - at least according to Radio 4 this morning. Might make for less busy, if more profane /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif waterways ?!

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[pragmatist]

No no - sory - realised my slip - they're all off ocean cruising in a boat which may not be named on this forum !

<hr width=100% size=1>a pragmatist is an optimist with a boat in the UK - but serious about not being in the UK !

 

[Birdseye]

Couldnt find the report. The RYA is concerned about the decline in UK sailing, but truth to tell it doesnt really know how much sailing there is. Many more boats are sailed from marinas rather than RYA member clubs, and without compulsory registration the stats arent accurate. In any case, how do you define sailing - is it owning a boat in a marina, or actually taking it out to sea. On the former definition there are lots of motorboat sailors. On the latter, there are a lot fewer.

Currently I am club commodore, and this subject is something I agonise over. Why is membership stagnant? How do we get young people when we have no dinghy fleet? Why do so many of our members simply leave their boats on the hard all year?

I dont know the answer. But one issue undoubtedly is how hard young people have to work in the UK thesedays, and their inclination to go for packages like Sunsail rather than ownership.

Any views?

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[masterofnone]

post was on onpassge the concensus was that theyre was a failure to communicate with the 1980's teens

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[Sybarite]

No real mystery here as to why there is a decline in sailing. I wonder how any of you can afford to continue to sail in the UK.

When I sailed in Strangford Lough as a youth, my mooring cost me £1 plus whatever about 10 metres of chain cost at the time. I used an old engine which I placed myself. No other charges except maybe a fiver for the boatmen for keeping an eye on the dinghy.

John.



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[castaway]

With regards to getting kids into the sport, I think that we have to see the fundamental difference between how kids thought 20-30 years ago, and how the children of the digital era see things.

My teenage kids and the young guys I work with are all 2 page experts on a multitude of subjects from sex to SLRs. Their breadth of knowledge is wide but the depth is shallow, I think in part its to do with the type of reading matter they use ;FHM GQ Internet etc. and the Sunday Mag stuff.

My generation didnt have the same span of information available for use and IMHO we tended to be very interested in 1 or 2 persuits, for me it was model aeroplanes and boats, moving onto motorbikes and boats, and I have kept commitment to these interests more or less throughout life.

I think that young people want to do somthing different every weekend. They are better prepared to spend their money paintballing/doing a trackday/ or maybe a Sunsail weekend charter, before moving on to a bungee jump, rather than buying a starter boat and doing 'club duties'. Shame really but im not sure which way is better, its just different now.

Im certainly not convinced about young people working harder! Its like the other myth about not being able to afford their own home because of prices...How many of you guys remember interest rates at 14% !!!! I sold my YM 3 tonner to raise my 1st deposit and we paid the mortgage out of 1 entire income, whilst existing on the other. However we couldnt afford to go 'clubbin' every week and drive a pair of new cars. Nothing wrong, just different!

Just one thing about sailing clubs.... I would love to join a club... if only I could find one that could offer me a mooring ( Seriously!)

All best Nick

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather>http://www.yachtsite.co.uk/fairweather</A>



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[jac]

I don't know if I count as a young person (I'm 37 and SWMBO is 32) but I put it down to cost. We're fortunate enough to both earn good money, have a small(ish) mortgage and to have had some luck with share shaves but even for us owning a boat is a difficult and expensive business.

Assuming you get a mooring somewhere like Chichester you're looking at £1200 for aa deepwater mooring, maybe £1k for lift, storage ashore + back in. Add in insurance, antifoul, service on engine and you're up £3k without even setting foot on the boat.

Assuming you had a £40k boat bought with cash then losing even 3% after tax you're looking at £1200 in lost interest. Total £4200 just for that boat to sit there. How many young people have £350-£400pm free?

In a nuttshell that why young people aren't getting into sailing.

I know some people will say you can have a a cheaper boat but that doesn't get round the morring costs.

I know some people will say you can have less expensive mooring but where? Most people live in the SE of england and want to be able to use their boat at the weekend. If I leave home at 7 I can be on a boat in a Southampton marina by 8:30. I can leave the boat on Sunday at 6 and be home at 7:30. If i keep one on a buoy in Wales or Devon I can add at least 2 hours onto those times. That then seriously curtails what I can do.

I've also done a search on the net for moorings in this area and there aren;t many cheaper than Chichester that I could find.

Many cheaper places also need waiting lists before you get the mooring. Younger people simply won't have been around long enough to have got to the top of the list.

Also how many clubs involved in yacht sailing actively welcome new members. I was looking at clubs in the Southampton / Portsmouth area that were convenient for Marinas and there were a lot that required proposer and seconder from the club- and they weren't all the Royal ones. If I don't know the members of the club how do I get proposed by them??

I saw a survey which i believe was done by Chichester Harbour Conservancy which reflected the findings of an Industry survey which stated that younger people aren't using their facilties and that the age ranges that were growing were the 65+. Personally I take some comfort from this. Without meaning to sound callous it means that in say 10 years a lot of those people will start to give up sailing and that finally the laws of supply and demand will work in the younger persons favour.

I also hope that the RYA doesn't succeed in keeping Red Diesel for the same reason. 40-50 litres of diesel a season should be fine for me so add a pound or two pe litre. The more it goes up, he more it might persuade MOBO owners to give up and take up golf. I'd be delighted to pay an extra £100 per season on diesel if it meant fewer boy racer MOBO types taking up spaces in Marinas and creating wash and would hope that some competition to sell these newly vacated berths might make all moorings more accessible for younger people.

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[ShipsWoofy]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Currently I am club commodore, and this subject is something I agonise over. Why is membership stagnant? How do we get young people when we have no dinghy fleet? Why do so many of our members simply leave their boats on the hard all year?

<hr></blockquote>

I can tell you why I have not joined the local club, the cost. To enrol us both it would cost a tad over £200. I do the maths, that makes it an expensive occassional pint in all honesty. I go to the boat for the weekend, if the weather is favourable I will not be there Saturday night, if the weather is blowing a hoolie I will be snug in the cabin staying dry and not crossing to the club in the dinghy.

I could see myself using it more in winter after working on the boat. Also as a cruiser there is very little a club offers other than a bar. Though if I go back to Porthmadog I will rejoin the club, only because it is easier to get to as it has a dinghy pontoon and I know more people there. Maybe my own fault for not joining my local club.

Also, I am 34, I find sailing clubs stuffy and far to many comittee rules to feel in a relaxed environment. For example, even though I have no kids, my local club bans them from the bar after 9pm. Sorry I thought sailing was a family pastime, this kind of thing IMO just shows in some ways how the members with clout think, I vote with my feet.

Does that answer you question.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Nick,

I do think that the UK junior and youth dinghy sailing scene is healthier now than it has been for years, if not ever... which will certainly translate to a healthier cruising scene in 15 or so yrs time as these kids grow to an age where they can afford the larger boats....

The advent of Lottery funding, plus EXTREMELY well organised RYA dinghy schemes taking juniors and youths through the programmes neccessary to convert them from participants to addicts are the envy of the rest of the world... my daughter aged 9 is a keen Oppy sailor, and gets loads of interest from her school chums who have all seen the British squad dominate at the Olympics recently... and I can assure you there is no lack of opportunities to do things dinghy related being presented to her by clubs, RYA and education system....

Yes, I do agree that children of the '80's (of which I am one) weren't encouraged other than by having sailing parents (like myself), but my own club is very active with 30 somethings nowadays, and in a better state than at any time in recent years... theses 30 somethings are often enormously attracted by the fun and exciting new range of asymmetric dinghies that exist, and they are, sure as day turns to night, expanding their interest into other areas of sailing...

so lets not all cry into our beer just yet....


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[Birdseye]

jac - I understand what you are saying and have sympathy with the problems of those living in the overcrowded South East. I suppose you do get compensation in income terms but inevitably it will be expensive for you to moor on the south coast.

However, I dont really think that is the reason for the stagnant / declining interest. At our club the membership is £120 pa and that includes a free mooring. Beer is £1.30 a pint in the bar, and there is an active social life, RYA courses etc. But we are still not beseiged with new members and nor are the other similar clubs in our area. So it cannot be a cost issue alone.

Funny thing is that the marinas, which even here are fairly expensive, are full. Many of the boats never seem to go out. Their owners, if they sail at all, seem to do it in isolation. People seem to be much less inclined to get together to provide common facilities and much more inclined simply to buy them.

<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[kds]

You need to move to the Bristol channel - we offer moorings, cheap membership, empty and exciting waters, no p##ts on Channel 16, etc.....
Ken

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[KevB]

I\'m all right Jac!!

"The more it goes up, he more it might persuade MOBO owners to give up and take up golf. I'd be delighted to pay an extra £100 per season on diesel if it meant fewer boy racer MOBO types taking up spaces in Marinas and creating wash"

I like you......NOT

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>