LPG Users Club?

[pt8]

Further to the letter in this month's MBM a LPG User Club sounds like a good idea but probably too late to stop the rot for gas conversion boats. In concept it was a good idea and it does work well but in practice it is a different matter.

We, too had problems with broken equipment (on one occassion we had to wait in a marina 2 days for the pump to be fixed), fuel-up ourselves as no one knew how to use the machinery and in the end I would phone ahead to marinas to make sure that they had stocks of fuel and that the equipment was working OK. This is not what you want if you are passage making.

I, too feel as though all of us who converted were duped and used as guinea pigs but at a high cost - £5,000 in our case. We were promised an growing network of outlets which never materialised with an outlet on the tidal Thames. Calor informed me that the Environment Agency would accept LPG duel fuel systems within 12 months on the inland waterways - this too did not materialise. The last straw for us came when the Calor backed company Marine Gas Services ceased trading which meant we had no back-up or service. We have got totally fed up with broken promises and have now decided to cut our losses and are now in the process of outing the V8 petrols and installing V8 diesels. I will also sleep sounder at night as I won't be sleeping right on top of 406 ltrs. of gas!!! Anyone interested in 2 cheap gas conversion kits?

Also, what happened to MBM's yearly review on LPG this year? It was promised back in the spring but I have seen nothing published yet. Have they too given up on LPG?

Rose


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[Solitaire]

You echo my sentiments entirley! I had a conversion done three years ago and this year finally gave up the struggle - two engines later - and went to diesel. Your right about the broken promises and failed equipment - Yarmouth being the worst for not knowing how it worked and Cowes for being out of commission for so long. To be honest, if I'd have know the hassel and lost boating I'd never have done it. But Hindsite is a great thing. I was a great advocate for the fuel in the early years but what appears to Calor's complete indifference to the customers. The other thing is that pay back is far longer than indicated. I only just covered the cost of installation after three years. And it was certainly 3 times longer than all the literature indicated. Unless you have really "fruity" engines like the 7.4 and bigger it is just not worth it! IMHO. I now understand that Yarmouth is getting rid of their tank and the same may happen at Cowes.

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[pt8]

I note what you say about Cowes/IOW but our problems were on the East Coast - so this is a universal problem not just on the South Coast.

We originally gave the system 5 years to get established, in the end we stuck with the gas for 3 years so probably have not received our full pay-back. We also took the view that we liked our boat and did not want to change but we wanted to go further afield when we retire and felt so restricted with a shortage of fuel outlets. Now was the time to do something about the situation while we still have the earning capacity. I know we have made the right decision. In fact, after what we saw of the installation when it was taken to pieces, we are rather glad we have done it now and not later. I'll say no more!

Rose



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[Dave_Snelson]

I bought my boat already converted. Near me (North Wales) there is only only one station at Pwllheli which is 12 miles away, but we tend to cruise that way anyway. There is also a pro wake boarder that fills up 3 times a day!!

I would be seriously screwed if the marina or Calor decided to pull out of this. I am also concerned that the developments that Calor stated, and still state on their website, haven't / are not happening. However, when you see what Calor passes off as customer service and attitude, you begin to realise that Calor are not interested in anything other than a monopolistic position.

Marine Gas Services did indeed go out of business and were taken over by another company whose name I can't remember. It was these guys that put me on to another firm called Hardy's in Pwllheli, who do LPG and LPG servicing. This was indeed fortunate and Hardy's are brilliant.

Maybe an LPG users group would be an appropriate lobby for Calor, or Shell, or whoever wants to provide a service. Its catch 22 really. Boaters won't convert where they know full well that they cannot buy. The proposition is still sound and is starting too even look good with all the talk about red diesel losing its status.

Count me in on any further discussion / decisions / groups.

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[Solitaire]

Darren from Marine Gas Services cleared off to Australia and the company which took over is called Marine Gas Solutions. They were an installer for MGS. The thing is that Calor does not subsides the installations any more. The issue regarding red diesel is frankly irrelevant. LPG is far less effficent than either petrol or diesel. I use to get about 60nm out of my gas tanks - about 150 useable litres. I get 200 nm out of 200 litres of diesel. Yep, that's right I'm using a litre per nautical mile. So even if red diesel does get "equalised" I'll still be more fuel efficent, anyway its going to be 2006/7 B4 the desciion is made. As I said, I was a great advocate - not any more!

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[pt8]

I think we were all great advocates in the begining - we were completely - apart from the costs we liked the environmental issues, but not any more. As to Red Diesel - if it does goes up in price so will LPG mark my words! LPG has only been kept low to shadow the price of red diesel.

Yes, your right about Darren from MGS. We had approached him with regard to having extra tanks fitted. He arrived on the jetty (we thought) to discuss the extra tanks. He said he had come to say 'Good Bye' as he was off to OZ net week! We were dumbfounded to say the least.

Rose

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[Solitaire]

He basically ran off leaving poor old Nigel in the lurch. Anyway can't say too much in open forum - if you know what I mean. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[Dave_Snelson]

To be honest, if I were sporting a pair of knackered engines and I had to make a choice, I would also choose diesel - but I'm not. I have a pair of 4 year old 4.3L V6 Vortec motors, that have not seen much work and run like a dream, so it isn't yet economic to replace them. I'll have to see how things get on in future with Calor etc.

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[ChrisP]

As a confirmed diesel user I'm outside the picture but maybe this could be viewed from another angle. It's the marina operators that create the demand for the supply companies to meet. If there is no demand from the boat owners the marinas won't install and maintain the facilities for gas filling, and while the marinas aren't buying the gas from the suppliers they won't support the supply structure. No market so why bother.

There is a gas supply at Brighton but in the couple of years that I've been there I've never seen a boat using it. With over a thousand boats in the marina and passing trade I would have expected to see some use. You could say that it happens when I'm not there although when you look at my fuel bills you'd think I lived on the fuel pontoon.

It seems that to bring in an alternative fuel you have to be able to hit into the comercial market as they did on the roads or offer huge savings. Niether of which have been done with marine gas. I've never believed in payback arguments for changing anything unless it's initial capital return within 24 months and a lifetime of 5 times payback period. How many people keep their existing boat in excess of 10 years with a constant useage rate?

Unfortunatley I think gas is going to go the way of steam. A great loss when you take into account the environmental advantages etc. but thats the way of a world run by accountants.

ChrisP

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[Dave_Snelson]

Reading your biog, I see you have a Yamaha diesel. Good engines and cheap as chips to run. You must be well pleased with it.

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[Solitaire]

I agree with the old adage - "if aint broke etc" . At the end of the day it's what works for you and your happy that's great. I just don't think that Calor will stay committed or Marina owners will decide on their own pricing and the gap will narrow. You have the advantage of buying the boat already converted so pay back is not an issue for you. Good luck.

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[Solitaire]

Fantastic - using 1 litre per nautical mile, starts first time every time and purrs along. The stern drive is alos great. No clunking into gear like Volvos and Mercs. I love it!/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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