LPG Bubble Tester essential?

[KREW2]

Re: Bubble tester testing?

thanks. alas i have nothing that uses a small amount of gas eg a fridge. will use old hose to make a small leak eg pinhole. cheers (then i will put the new hose on stop panicking!)

cheers

I do mine with a burner on as low as possible, then slowly push the red button down.
At the first sign of a bubble I release it. With too much gas flow, for too long I suppose it could burst the seal and release all the fluid.

I then know that the tiny hole in the tester body, inside the sight glass is not gunged.
For the sake of repeating this, if it is blocked, it will not show any bubbles when the red knob is pressed, giving the impression all is okay, even if you have a leak.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Re: Bubble tester testing?

When I fitted my whole system, the bubble tester was helpful as it did quickly identify I had a leak post install. Every time I turn my gas on since then, as matter of course, I press my bubble tester and to give me peace of mind that a wedge oar in a locker has not lever a piece of copper out of true, or the union on the cooker has come loose where I pulled by cooker out, or the piece of flexible hose that joins the copper to the cooker hasn't been chewed by the dog! Its a one second test that gives peace of mind (and at that point, its more about that peace of mind rather than anything else as its been rock solid ever since the install). The video at the start of the below did focus my mind when I fitted it all out...

Important to note that the bubble tester showed me the leak before the NASA gas detector or any other electrickery noted any gas... makes it worthy in my books.

http://www.albinballad.co.uk/how-tos/fit-out-your-gas/

 

[VicS]

Re: Bubble tester testing?

When I fitted my whole system, the bubble tester was helpful as it did quickly identify I had a leak post install. Every time I turn my gas on since then, as matter of course, I press my bubble tester and to give me peace of mind that a wedge oar in a locker has not lever a piece of copper out of true, or the union on the cooker has come loose where I pulled by cooker out, or the piece of flexible hose that joins the copper to the cooker hasn't been chewed by the dog! Its a one second test that gives peace of mind (and at that point, its more about that peace of mind rather than anything else as its been rock solid ever since the install). The video at the start of the below did focus my mind when I fitted it all out...

Important to note that the bubble tester showed me the leak before the NASA gas detector or any other electrickery noted any gas... makes it worthy in my books.

http://www.albinballad.co.uk/how-tos/fit-out-your-gas/

You should be holding the button down for a minute!

C. Depress the red testing button as far as it will go and hold for about 60 seconds. Leaking
bubbles may immediately appear in the sight glass (see fi gure 3) if there is any
leakage in the system.​

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Re: Bubble tester testing?

You should be holding the button down for a minute!

C. Depress the red testing button as far as it will go and hold for about 60 seconds. Leaking
bubbles may immediately appear in the sight glass (see fi gure 3) if there is any
leakage in the system.​

I do hold it down for more than a second in reality.... not the full sixty though... d'oh. Better change my 'gas on' run book...!

 

[paulieraw]

Having known of a boat go up in Poole harbour where the Skipper lost his leg, LPG should be treated with respect. The boat belonged to Military and I know they have a principle of gas on at the bottle, light the stove, gas off at the bottle then turn the stove off when it goes out. That reduces the risk. It only takes a six percent mix in the bilge to have an explosive mixture.

Being aware of the danger is just common sense.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I reckon not, it's just introducing more potential leak points. If you open the solenoid valve only when you actually want to use the cooker, and if you turn off the cylinder when you're not on the boat, what's the danger? Posts in these forums seem to show that people are irrationally frightened of LPG; in reality it's quite safe as long as you're sensible. If you're not sensible, no extra gadgets will protect you from harm.

Very true.?

 

[ghostlymoron]

I fitted a bubble tester because the surveyor (don't get me started!) listed it as a recommendation and, of course, the insurance company insisted on all the "recommendation" being completed. It's next to useless as, in the only position I can place it, it's hard to see and places a joint outside the gas locker. The boat needs another insurance survey this year so I'll have a chat with the (different) surveyor and see what he says.

Get a different surveyor. I had my Mirage surveyed at purchase and no mention was made of the lack of a bubble tester.

 

[colind3782]

Get a different surveyor. I had my Mirage surveyed at purchase and no mention was made of the lack of a bubble tester.

Easier said than done in Empuriabrava. If you can recommend one, I'd be grateful.

 

[pvb]

Having known of a boat go up in Poole harbour where the Skipper lost his leg, LPG should be treated with respect. The boat belonged to Military and I know they have a principle of gas on at the bottle, light the stove, gas off at the bottle then turn the stove off when it goes out. That reduces the risk. It only takes a six percent mix in the bilge to have an explosive mixture.

Being aware of the danger is just common sense.

I imagine you're referring to the Lord Trenchard explosion. If you've read the report on it, you'd know that (a) the connection to the gas bottle hadn't been properly tightened, (b) the gas locker wasn't gas-tight as it should have been, and (c) the crew detected a smell of gas in the gas locker the previous night and did nothing to investigate it.

There's no mention in the report of your belief that the crew would only turn the gas on at the bottle when they needed it, and turn it off at the bottle immediately after using the cooker. If they had followed that regime, the explosion probably wouldn't have happened.

You mention common sense; if the crew had used a bit more common sense, the explosion wouldn't have happened. LPG on boats is intrinsically safe if you're sensible.

 

[LittleSister]

gas off at the bottle then turn the stove off when it goes out. That reduces the risk. It only takes a six percent mix in the bilge to have an explosive mixture.

What's the point of turning the gas off at the bottle first? How many cc of gas do you think would make the difference between the gas in the supply pipe being at full pressure and it being it at atmospherical pressure, and how many cc would it take to give a 6% mix in the bilge?

I suspect that there would be a greater danger from the procedure you suggest because it would be easy to forget to turn the appliance off once it had gone out, with the risk of much more gas escaping when the supply is turned on again.

You are also likely to have more gas than otherwise going adrift while you are trying to light a burner if some air has previously got into the unpressurised system while you're on your way back from turning off the bottle.

 

[Sandy]

What's the point of turning the gas off at the bottle first? How many cc of gas do you think would make the difference between the gas in the supply pipe being at full pressure and it being it at atmospherical pressure, and how many cc would it take to give a 6% mix in the bilge?

Simples, you burn all the gas in the system that you can and you do the same thing every time you switch off the gas, it becomes normal. A bit like putting on your seatbelt.

I've been on boats with a lot of military personnel and it makes total sense. Step that up to a field kitchen and everybody should do the same thing.

Many years ago I witnessed a tent catch fire from a small gaz stove, it flashed over in about 10 seconds anything that you can do to reduce the risk is good.

 

[paulieraw]

I imagine you're referring to the Lord Trenchard explosion. If you've read the report on it, you'd know that (a) the connection to the gas bottle hadn't been properly tightened, (b) the gas locker wasn't gas-tight as it should have been, and (c) the crew detected a smell of gas in the gas locker the previous night and did nothing to investigate it.

There's no mention in the report of your belief that the crew would only turn the gas on at the bottle when they needed it, and turn it off at the bottle immediately after using the cooker. If they had followed that regime, the explosion probably wouldn't have happened.

You mention common sense; if the crew had used a bit more common sense, the explosion wouldn't have happened. LPG on boats is intrinsically safe if you're sensible.

I am referring to the Trenchard, what you point out is a series of events. Accidents rarely happen without a number of events coming together. I sailed on the Tranchard many times. It also had a bubble tester, and when a bottle is changed they leak test with liquid. That should have found a loose connection. The principle of turning on and off the gas is ingrained into crews.
However, turning it on and off with a leak, with all these issues would have still caused this accident as every time gas was turned on more would have escaped and Nicks have deep bilges.
The other thing joint service crews do is hand pump the bilges dry plus 20. This pumps any gas out of the bilges, when in harbour this doesn’t get done and could have contributed
My point is gas is a risk on a boat and being aware of the dangers leads to a healthy respect.

 

[paulieraw]

What's the point of turning the gas off at the bottle first? How many cc of gas do you think would make the difference between the gas in the supply pipe being at full pressure and it being it at atmospherical pressure, and how many cc would it take to give a 6% mix in the bilge?
I suspect that there would be a greater danger from the procedure you suggest because it would be easy to forget to turn the appliance off once it had gone out, with the risk of much more gas escaping when the supply is turned on again.

You are also likely to have more gas than otherwise going adrift while you are trying to light a burner if some air has previously got into the unpressurised system while you're on your way back from turning off the bottle.

Gas is heavier than air so sits and remains in the bilges. Unless you get the gas out it will build eventually to an explosive mixture.

 

[LittleSister]

What's the point of turning the gas off at the bottle first? How many cc of gas do you think would make the difference between the gas in the supply pipe being at full pressure and it being it at atmospherical pressure, and how many cc would it take to give a 6% mix in the bilge?

I suspect that there would be a greater danger from the procedure you suggest because it would be easy to forget to turn the appliance off once it had gone out, with the risk of much more gas escaping when the supply is turned on again.

You are also likely to have more gas than otherwise going adrift while you are trying to light a burner if some air has previously got into the unpressurised system while you're on your way back from turning off the bottle.

Simples, you burn all the gas in the system that you can and you do the same thing every time you switch off the gas, it becomes normal. A bit like putting on your seatbelt.

Yes, but by reducing one almost incredibly small contribution to risk, you've created a far larger one.

Gas is heavier than air so sits and remains in the bilges. Unless you get the gas out it will build eventually to an explosive mixture.

I know gas is heavier than air. The issue is how much risk from how much gas. (By the way, the gas doesn't build forever, it does dissipate over time.)

 

[paulieraw]

Yes, but by reducing one almost incredibly small contribution to risk, you've created a far larger one.



I know gas is heavier than air. The issue is how much risk from how much gas. (By the way, the gas doesn't build forever, it does dissipate over time.)

How much risk do you want? You can respect it and reduce the risk, or become a statistic. A boat I sailed on many time blew its top, badly injured its skipper and that was in harbour. It could have been much worse at sea. These things do happen and looking at google too frequently. So why not have safety protocols that lessen the risk?

Gas only disapates when it’s disturbed, so air going through the bilges, pumping out movement etc, all help.

 

[pvb]

What's the point of turning the gas off at the bottle first? How many cc of gas do you think would make the difference between the gas in the supply pipe being at full pressure and it being it at atmospherical pressure, and how many cc would it take to give a 6% mix in the bilge?

I suspect that there would be a greater danger from the procedure you suggest because it would be easy to forget to turn the appliance off once it had gone out, with the risk of much more gas escaping when the supply is turned on again.

You are also likely to have more gas than otherwise going adrift while you are trying to light a burner if some air has previously got into the unpressurised system while you're on your way back from turning off the bottle.

I'd agree with your comments. The suggested procedure is the sort of thing dreamed up by people who've been told LPG is dangerous.

 

[pvb]

I am referring to the Trenchard, what you point out is a series of events. Accidents rarely happen without a number of events coming together. I sailed on the Tranchard many times. It also had a bubble tester, and when a bottle is changed they leak test with liquid. That should have found a loose connection.

How on earth do you think a bubble tester would have found the loose connection at the cylinder? Do you know how bubble testers work?

The principle of turning on and off the gas is ingrained into crews.
However, turning it on and off with a leak, with all these issues would have still caused this accident as every time gas was turned on more would have escaped....

Not if the gas locker had been properly gas-tight, as it should have been.

The other thing joint service crews do is hand pump the bilges dry plus 20. This pumps any gas out of the bilges, when in harbour this doesn’t get done and could have contributed
My point is gas is a risk on a boat and being aware of the dangers leads to a healthy respect.

The report into the explosion said that the bilge pumping procedure was basically worthless, and "have the undesirable effect of giving crews a false sense of security". Maybe that's why the crew weren't unduly bothered when the gas alarm went off twice the day before the explosion. Maybe that's also why the crew weren't bothered when they came back from the pub and could smell gas in the gas locker. If the crew had enjoyed a healthier respect for LPG, the explosion wouldn't have happened.

 

[Sandy]

Yes, but by reducing one almost incredibly small contribution to risk, you've created a far larger one.

I will disagree, I've seen at close quarters how the military train, repeat, repeat, repeat until you don't need to process an action in the higher cortex..

 

[doug748]

Bloody hell, 58 posts and still going, the OP may have either fitted one or dissipated up his own fundament.

Post three fixed the question. I like my Alde because it helps to keep tradesmen at bay with their testing equipment, fancy ideas and guile for levering money out of my wallet. One neat thing you can do is test any flexible stuff to the cooker - this is the favourite for early problems.

 

[VicS]

Bloody hell, 58 posts and still going, the OP may have either fitted one or dissipated up his own fundament.

Post two fixed the question. I like my Alde because it helps to keep tradesmen at bay with their testing equipment, fancy ideas and guile for levering money out of my wallet. One neat thing you can do is test any flexible stuff to the cooker - this is the favourite for early problems.

The thread should have been left where it naturally ended, in March but for no good reason was resurrected yesterday!