Love the French?

[reginaldon]

Re: Continent cut off by fog?

Of course we had all these "jokes' about the Italians fighting ability, but the British seemed to have forgotten how hard they fought against the Germans only 21 years previously. Obviously the hearts of the average soldier was not in fighting their erstwhile allies alongside their previous enemies.

 

[arto]

Re: Continent cut off by fog?

Try a google for "pathetic failure". The result is distinctly non-French.

 

[Sybarite]

Re: 4 words

Probably the greatest monarch Britain ever had was French: Henry II - as was his son, Richard the Lionheart, who, during his 10 year reign spent less than 6 months in England.

Thomas à Beckett : French

Robert the Bruce : direct French descent.

The Stuart dynasty : French

Strongbow in Ireland : French.

I could go on.

John

 

[Kristal]

When you go on...

...what about Serge Gainsbourg?

 

[Metabarca]

Nickel + Newbieknonowt have put it in a nutshell.
There's a fine line between humour about other countries and what amounts to a form of racism. American humour is blunt at the best of times, bar a few shining examples, and what we were served up here ain't one of them. If we were to start forming jokes about how Americans are better at shooting themselves and their allies, oh how they would bleat!

 

[Sybarite]

Re: When you go on...

[ QUOTE ]
...what about Serge Gainsbourg?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ukrainian.

John

 

[snowleopard]

the joke on google is a 'google bomb' so only the product of a few american nerds exploiting a loophole in the google search engine.

on the other hand, talk of french support for the allies in WW2 needs to be balanced against the fact that there were more vichy french troops fighting for the axis than free french on the allied side.

IMO the americans are quite wrong in ascribing the lack of french support for the US in iraq to cowardice. the fact that french and russians were the main western opponents of the war probably had more to do with the fact that the pre-war iraqi oil industry was run by - you've guessed it = the french and the russians!

 

[Nickel]

I'd have to take issue with your second paragraph. Vichy is a terrible and lasting stain on France, and there are many, many things that that regime can be accused of - complicity in the deportation of French Jews, for example, but I know of absolutely no case of Vichy troops fighting for the Axis.

There was the deplorable SS Charlemagne Unit, which was made up of French Nazi volunteers [much like the SS Viking and SS Galicia units were made up of Nordic and Ukrainians and the like] but these soldiers were not Vichy soldiers.
And this was formed in 1944 at which time there were significant numbers of Free French Units fighting for the allies, and performing brilliantly - 5 divisions in Italy, crucially outflanking Monte Cassino, many more in the campaign in Southern France, LeClerc's 2nd Armoured Division in Normandy - often used as Patton's spearhead.

 

[snowleopard]

there were several instances i have read about but can't lay my hands on at present. a specific incident i have found documentation on is the battle for damascus in 1942 where vichy french troops fought with the germans against british and free french.

individual french volunteered to fight on the german side, either because they admired the nazi philosophy or opposed communism though this was not an official vichy policy.

the numbers who joined de gaulle and the free french were tiny. most french expats in britain in 1940 chose to support vichy.

 

[Sammo]

It wasn`t all onesided, remember this

3 July 1940,

Operation "Katapult": French War Fleet in the port Mers el Kébir near Oran (N.Africa) attack by British War-ships. Ships of the British Mediterranean Fleet destroyed units of the French Fleet to prevent them falling into German hands.

a lot of french sailers died that day.

..............

 

[Nickel]

I've never heard of Germans being involved in that operation. It's worth remembering that from Vichy's point of view their Syrian protectorate was being attacked , and they were merely exercising thier right to self defense. That's not quite the same as fighting with the Germans, although I would always agree that it was a dreadful and tragic delusional waste for the French colonies to defend themselves against their liberators.

That is always the problem with a house divided.

As for numbers, I do not have them, but I would reckon there would have to have been more than 200k French military involved by mid '44 and their contribution was anything but tiny.

 

[Sybarite]

Luckily I reread your comment before responding and noted the question mark. Presumeably that acknowledges that you don't know?

John

 

[celandine]

Re: Love the French? Re Cliff anf Toronto tonto.

You're just whistling in the dark: the French had the good sense not to get in to bed with Bush and his laughably naive view of what constitutes a safer world. They have had to put up with this rash of unfunny jokes as a result. O.K. so the French don't get off on winning too many battles, but they get by on better food, good wine, and a healthy attitude to sex - that'll do for me.