Looking into buying a boat

[Chris_d]

Thanks for pointing this out; wouldn't have even thought about that sort of thing

This doesn't apply to all "rear engined outdrive sports cruisers" some are worse that others and some peeps are better at driving them than others, its not a big deal I've been
driving them on the river for years. They also offer a lots of advantages: ability to reduce draft to get into shallow moorings, can lift the prop to clear it of rope etc.., better control
of the stern in locks and at close quarters. In some ways a single outdrive open cockpit sports crusier is the perfect river boat, very manouvrerable, light and easy to handle, lovely smooth
quiet petrol engine, no smoke, great open sociable cockpit for seeing the scenary. There are two sides to every argument :encouragement:

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

Great open sociable cockpit for seeing the scenary

Indeed, we've felt very cooped up sat in most cabin cruisers; we are not really interested in the "water caravans".

If it comes down to it and there isn't the right boat for us, we won't buy it, but at the same time, we are not put off by the higher costs of running a sports cruiser if its going to offer us enjoyment on the river.... Not forgetting, we can easily get home from work on a summer evening and take it out for a couple of hours.... I don't really get the argument of "seeing the same bit of river" - as a youngster I rowed the same 4 mile stretch of river 4 times a week for several years (on the Thames in Pangbourne).... I never got bored of the scenery and took enjoyment from just being out on the river.

 

[landlockedpirate]

All boats are a compromise and while a Norman or Freeman will meet a lot of your needs, they do have issues in other areas. A sportscruiser might not be an ideal choice, but they have a lot more positives than people give them credit.

Traditional river boats have small cockpits, they are also not the most comfortable place to sit for your guests. A modern sportscruiser has a much larger cockpit and even a budget Bayliner or Rinker will be more comfortable for lounging about. They also have a better cover arrangement, allowing you to tailor the shelter you want to the conditions. The interior will give your more space (for the same LOA) as well because of the midship berth.

The petrol V diesel argument has been done to death, on purely financial grounds, diesel wins everytime. But its not as simple as that, petrol V6/V8's are much nicer to live with, less noise, less vibration, no smoke, less fumes etc. And IMHO the burble of a V8 is a much nicer sound to listen too over a long days cruising. Servicing can be expensive but a little easy DIY brings the cost down a lot and parts have good availability (try finding bits for a 30 year old oil burner on a bank holiday monday !).My other issue with older diesel boats is the smell, they all seem to have that warm oil burning wiff.

Handling a sportscruiser is not as easy as a dedicated shaft drive river boat, but it really isnt a problem. With practice (and training) you can make a single outdrive sports cruiser do pretty much anything. You can also fit a an extra rudder to the outdrive that makes straight line cruising a lot more relaxed. Fuel consumption really is a minor part of boat ownership, we average around 0.9gph with a petrol 5.7l V8 at river speeds. Since an average day for us would be about 15 miles, its less than £20 a day in fuel.

Good luck with the search, my advice would be to look at as many boats as you can before making a decsion.

 

[ontheplane]

My dad fitted a makeshift rudder to our outboard when we were on the canals, and it transformed the low-speed handling. Without it you needed some power on to have any steerage, with it, as long as there was some waterflow (boat moving or engine in gear) it steered beautifully - just have to take off if you want to go fast (above planing speed).

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

Saw a Fairline Targa 27 at the weekend and fell in love, beautiful boat and great layout.... It's definitely the exact sort of thing we are looking for; ample cockpit space yet a big enough cabin with heating/hot water/toilet/shower/kitchen facilities to be able to do a comfortable longer trip; really like the idea of spending a couple of weeks cruising up river to the coast then hugging the shoreline for a couple of days so this sort of boat fits the bill perfectly.


Which brings me on to another question; which training course should I be looking at to be able to allow me to safely navigate coastal waters / reading navigation maps & charts?

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

Having done plenty of digny sailing courses in my youth, I thought RYA was a good place to start (have completed RYA Sailing Level 1,2,3), I found this course which sounds ideal:

http://www.hamble.co.uk/others/rya-online-essential-navigation-and-seamanship-course/


However, I remember someone mentioning that on the continent there is a standard level of competence they require, is there a UK equivalent of that?

 

[Chris_d]

Saw a Fairline Targa 27 at the weekend and fell in love, beautiful boat and great layout.... It's definitely the exact sort of thing we are looking for; ample cockpit space yet a big enough cabin with heating/hot water/toilet/shower/kitchen facilities to be able to do a comfortable longer trip; really like the idea of spending a couple of weeks cruising up river to the coast then hugging the shoreline for a couple of days so this sort of boat fits the bill perfectly.


Which brings me on to another question; which training course should I be looking at to be able to allow me to safely navigate coastal waters / reading navigation maps & charts?

Targa 27 is great for the river but avoid if twin petrols for coastal use, would reccomend doing an RYA day skipper thoery course over the winter before you go coastal.

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

avoid if twin petrols for coastal use

How come?

RYA day skipper thoery course

I was looking at doing these training courses:
http://www.hamble.co.uk/rya-training-courses/rya-day-skipper-theory/
and:
http://www.hamble.co.uk/rya-training-courses/rya-day-skipper-motor/

 

[Chris_d]

Twin petrols will use 30-50% more fuel and reduce your range by the same amount, petrol also not so freely available on the coast where as Diesel is in every port.
Also waterside petrol prices are extornionate, usually 20-30ppl more. Remember a planing boat like a Targa 27 will use at least 10gph at cruising speed.

Most twin petrol sportscrusiers unless US sourced were sold in the 80's early 90's when fuel was cheap, generaly no European manufacteurers even offer them any more.

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

Also waterside petrol prices are extornionate, usually 20-30ppl more. Remember a planing boat like a Targa 27 will use at least 10gph at cruising speed.

Is cruising speed the most fuel efficient speed to be going when running on coastal waters? We won't be looking at making many (if any) long range journeys when out on the coastal waters, it would be mostly spent in and around the wash area, probably no more than about 40 miles from the river mouth (and not too far from the coastline).

 

[Chris_d]

Is cruising speed the most fuel efficient speed to be going when running on coastal waters? We won't be looking at making many (if any) long range journeys when out on the coastal waters, it would be mostly spent in and around the wash area, probably no more than about 40 miles from the river mouth (and not too far from the coastline).

The most fuel efficient speed will be around 5-6knts in a Targa 27 but you won't want to do that at sea as you won't be getting anywhere, it will be very uncomfortable and tides will become a big factor in navigating.
Any planing boat will only be able to operate at up to say 7/8knts and over 17knts, anywhere in between will be impossible for a boat like a Targa 27 to cruise at those non planing speeds, so go slow on the river and do say 20knts at sea, unless just pottering around the bay.

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

The most fuel efficient speed will be around 5-6knts in Targa 27 but you won't want to do that at sea as you won't be getting anywhere, it will be very uncomfortable and tides will become a big factor in navigating.
Any planing boat will only be able to operate at up to say 7/8knts and over 17knts, anywhere in between will be impossible for a boat like a Targa 27 to cruise at those non planing speeds, so go slow on the river and do say 20knts at sea, unless just pottering around the bay.

Much appreciated; in all honesty, it won't be until summer 2015 that I'd realistically be looking at getting out to the coast, gives me a chance to get training completed (found that a local college holds evening classes over 22 weeks for the Day Skipper course which starts in September so I'll probably enrol on that). I'd also like to get a bit of hands-on practical training before hitting the coast on my own just to ensure I know exactly what I'm doing; wouldn't want to end up destroying a 20k boat (or put any life aboard in danger) simply being none the wiser!

 

[landlockedpirate]

The Targa 27 is a great boat, but if its got twin petrols you need to buy it very. very cheaply.

I only run petrol boats, but after a brief flirtation with a Regal 2760 and twin V6 petrols, I would never run a twin again. Scarey fuel consumption, 20 miles a weekend on Windermere was pver 50 litres and 20 miles really isnt very far.

Single petrol engine sportscruisers sub 28ft do make sense, anything with twins doesnt.

There are loads of small sportscruisers out there with single petrols, look for Bayliner 2655, Chapparal 260, Maxum 2400/2700, Four Winns 258/268 etc etc

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

The Targa 27 is a great boat, but if its got twin petrols you need to buy it very. very cheaply

What would you consider "very cheap"? It's a 1990, on for £22k but wouldn't want to pay any more than £20k,

 

[landlockedpirate]

What would you consider "very cheap"? It's a 1990, on for £22k but wouldn't want to pay any more than £20k,

I dont think thats cheap enough for a 24 year old boat, diesel versions can be had for just a couple of grand more.

Lots of choice at the £20k mark for 2000 and newer 24-28 ft sportscruisers. Have a look on Boatshop24 for a Bayliner 2855 if you want maximum bang for your buck

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

I dont think thats cheap enough for a 24 year old boat, diesel versions can be had for just a couple of grand more.

Lots of choice at the £20k mark for 2000 and newer 24-28 ft sportscruisers. Have a look on Boatshop24 for a Bayliner 2855 if you want maximum bang for your buck

Oh right, had a look at pricing of other targas and seemed to be on for around the 20k mark, looked for the 2855, but they are a bit too pricy for us; cheapest is up for 23.5k, and will cost another 500ish to transport it.... I was considering putting in a cheeky *silly* offer on the fairline to see what they come back with, maybe I'll hold off now!?

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

Noticed someone has taken a pretty cool video showing our new house and the marina.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hH1mkuzIIw&feature=youtu.be

 

[Chris_d]

Oh right, had a look at pricing of other targas and seemed to be on for around the 20k mark, looked for the 2855, but they are a bit too pricy for us; cheapest is up for 23.5k, and will cost another 500ish to transport it.... I was considering putting in a cheeky *silly* offer on the fairline to see what they come back with, maybe I'll hold off now!?

If its up for 22K its selling price will definitely be sub 20K, asking prices at riverside brokers are usually the same and bare no relation to what the boat is worth. Depending on the condition 15K would seem like a good offer.

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

If its up for 22K its selling price will definitely be sub 20K, asking prices at riverside brokers are usually the same and bare no relation to what the boat is worth. Depending on the condition 15K would seem like a good offer.

Really that low? ...I guess the worst that can happen is they can say no

 

[rubber_dinghy_matt]

I sent a number of enquiries to the broker the other week regarding the Fairline Targa up for sale for 22k,

Hi Matt,

Thankyou for your enquiry regarding the fairline targa we have for sale on brokerage, sorry for the delay in responding but we needed to verify a few points with the owner.

He has maintained the boat himself while he has owned it for the last 8 years, he also has a comprehensive set of folders containing service records, bill of sale etc from the owners before him, he is the fourth owner from new.
He has noted the jobs that require attention before the boat is re-commissioned, these are; portside raw water pump leaking, battery discharge fault to be investigated and stbd side sterndrive propeller shaft oil seals require replacing.
The bellows, water intake hoses and anodes were replaced prior to last season, hull was anti-fouled at the same time. Both engines have been replaced as were the exhaust manifolds and risers in the last 3 years, stbd engine has done approx 50 hours since replacement, port engine 20 hours.
The boat was kept in Spain when first purchased but has been kept and used in the uk in freshwater for the last 4 years. Boat was stored ashore for approx 18 months between 2012/2013.
As far as he is aware there are no blisters, osmosis or dry rot but we would recommend that you have a surveyor check the boat for you!
The vinyl graphics were all replaced while the boat was stored ashore in 2012/2013.The gel-coat is original, there are some scuffs/ stress cracks in a few places as you would expect on a boat of this age.
The boat has been stored ashore during the winter months while in spain and in this country and was winterised and re-commissioned by the owner. The boat has always been kept in a marina.
The owner is looking for a smaller sports-cruiser he can tow behind a vehicle.
As far as he is aware the boat has never been involved in an accident.
The canopy is 5/6 years old, has had new plastic windows fitted in the last 2 years and is in good condition.
The boat is fitted with Autohelm navigation equipment, chartplotter,depth-sounder, speed log, auto-pilot. (These were on the boat when purchased by current owner)
The boat is owned only by him with no partners and is not subject to any hire-purchase or loan. So yes clear title to the boat.
The boat has carver warm air heating (LPG), radio/ cd player, electric anchor winch.
The boat is in need of a boat safety inspection/ certificate for use on inland waterways.

This boat has a hinging fibre-glass arch to enable navigation under low bridges, the boat is in good order internally but would benefit from a clean/ compound externally. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further enquiries regarding this boat or any of our brokerage boats.

The boat is listed at 22,000. Asking for some advice here on what a realistic price of this boat should be, I've looked around at quite a few different Targas and the listed price seems to vary wildly from about 17k - 35k for the same model boat.
I was quite interested to see the engine replacement, however, I imagine the replacements were second hand engines rather than a brand new, although may have been reconditioned, but when we saw them, they did look very clean and tidy unlike others we've seen.

Any further thoughts?

Thanks for all the help thus far, it's very much appreciated,