Looking for a change

[SimonX]

Hello all,
Thanks for adding me to the forum.
I’m a semi-retired owner of a small logistics company and have owned a 1999 Bayliner 3055 for just over 6 years, using it mostly at weekends around the Solent area coast with occasional longer trips to Dorset and Kent.
This summer, having passed the day to day running of the business to my assistant, now general manager, we had our first bigger trip, over to the Channel Islands and St Malo and this has wetted our appetite to do some more. Probably to the same area and further in Brittany but the good lady (who had Belgian and Dutch parents) also keen to go up to the Netherlands and onto canals there and in France.
Unfortunately it also highlighted that the Bayliner isn’t great for these longer trips. The main issue is fuel cost and consumption. Running two 220hp Mercruiser petrol engines is pretty expensive. We also had some reliability issues with them (water pump failure, cracked manifold, the usual shift cable problems).
Despite being beamy it’s also quite cramped when you are living onboard for weeks. With both beds open onto the galley area and only one heads, it’s a bit too tight for guests once you are getting on a bit.
So we are looking at getting something a little bigger and diesel powered.
A couple of people at the marina have recommended Brooms and there seems to be a huge range of them. Price wise a lot depends on how much I can get for the Bayliner (probably £30-40k) but probably around £100-120k spend so a Broom is going to be around the same age or a little older for that price.
Models 35CL, 36, 37, 38 seem to be suitable although all the 35CLs I can see currently listed are single engine 135hp which seems a bit weak for channel crossing and anything but close coastal.
I’ve had a read of some other posts on here and it seems I need to be looking for twin diesels ( best brand?) bow thruster, folding radar arch, generator.
Any other features I should look out for ? Other similar boats?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dino]

I have a Broom Ocean 38 and I use it mainly inland with the occasional longer trip at sea. They are great boats and handle the conditions well. The Yanmar 250’s or Perkins Sabre M265Ti’s are probably the best option for sea trips. The other options are the Volvo Penta 200’s or Mercruisers but they have a slightly lower cruising and top speed. I have the Perkins Sabres in my boat and they are lovely big low revving engines but the Yanmars are probably a bit smoother and quieter.
The 35CL seems a bit top heavy looking to me and most seem to be single engined. The 36 is a good option too and reputed to be a good sea boat.
The huge benefit of a Broom is the huge aft cabin with separate shower.

 

[Aardee]

We were in a similar position and ended up writing a wish-list and spending many happy hours on brokers websites as well as Apollo Duck etc looking for the boat that best suited our needs. We've ended up with a Viki 34 Aft Cabin which we absolutely love but I reckon nobody would have known/ remembered/ suggested had we asked the question on here.

There's no substitute for looking at a variety of boats to help decide what you do and don't want.

Happy hunting!

 

[Greg2]

Broom’s are well built boats (we have had two) and the aft cabin configuration provides good internal accommodation with the benefit of a decent cockpit with raised helm position. Older models had two helm positions (the other one being in the saloon) but Brooms cottoned on to the fact that the lower helm was rarely used so discontinued it.

For many years they produced a coastal (CL) range and an offshore (OS) range. The CL has a semi-displacement hull wheras the OS had a planing hull, often with a small skeg keel to help with directional stability at low speeds. All were designed with cruising European waterways in mind and sea passages when required. The 38CL is a very good boat that turned out to be a far better sea boat than it was thought it would be.

Interior woodwork options were primarily sapele (not to our taste) or teak (by far the better choice IMHO) and later boats can be found with other types of wood finish.

Friends just got a good deal buying a 36 that they owned several years ago. It is a bit of a buyers market so don’t be shy about making offers if you find one that you like.
.

 

[oldgit]

Would suggest that a twin engined boat would be first priority with generator a very desirable option. Generators were not regarded in the past as a vital part of UK boating in this era and finding one with a genny might not be that easy , retro fitting one is an expensive affair.
Bowthruster, suspect most boats of this era will have one, some folks amazingly survive without.
Engines , you will find that nothing quite divides the boating community as the colour an engine is painted, however whatever was fitted was usually choosen for reliabilty and economy rather than out and out performance.

No real harm in a couple big lumps tootling along in that canal or on the Thames at 8km and they may cost more to maintain and service but you ( and your crew) might appreciate being able to get a move on halfway across the channel.
The Brooms you mention are fairly new and were a departure from the " traditional" ideas of what a Broom interior should look like.
Would suggest a search of coastal brokers more likely to produce a twin engined variant, however Thames marinas and importantly brokers) probably have more Brooms per square mile in their locale than just about anywhere in the UK.
Sellers are slowly becoming aware that the Covid price chaos is rapidly dissipating , do know of Brooms having failed to attract any interest which have now been withdrawn from the market.
This of course means that those wishing to upgrade need to take advice on what their boat is worth.
Your broker will probably be able to give the most honest view, in a recent conversation, not much is moving at the moment.
"Seize the Day" but under no circumstances end up with two boats.

 

[Parabordi]

Hello all,
Thanks for adding me to the forum.
I’m a semi-retired owner of a small logistics company and have owned a 1999 Bayliner 3055 for just over 6 years, using it mostly at weekends around the Solent area coast with occasional longer trips to Dorset and Kent.
This summer, having passed the day to day running of the business to my assistant, now general manager, we had our first bigger trip, over to the Channel Islands and St Malo and this has wetted our appetite to do some more. Probably to the same area and further in Brittany but the good lady (who had Belgian and Dutch parents) also keen to go up to the Netherlands and onto canals there and in France.
Unfortunately it also highlighted that the Bayliner isn’t great for these longer trips. The main issue is fuel cost and consumption. Running two 220hp Mercruiser petrol engines is pretty expensive. We also had some reliability issues with them (water pump failure, cracked manifold, the usual shift cable problems).
Despite being beamy it’s also quite cramped when you are living onboard for weeks. With both beds open onto the galley area and only one heads, it’s a bit too tight for guests once you are getting on a bit.
So we are looking at getting something a little bigger and diesel powered.
A couple of people at the marina have recommended Brooms and there seems to be a huge range of them. Price wise a lot depends on how much I can get for the Bayliner (probably £30-40k) but probably around £100-120k spend so a Broom is going to be around the same age or a little older for that price.
Models 35CL, 36, 37, 38 seem to be suitable although all the 35CLs I can see currently listed are single engine 135hp which seems a bit weak for channel crossing and anything but close coastal.
I’ve had a read of some other posts on here and it seems I need to be looking for twin diesels ( best brand?) bow thruster, folding radar arch, generator.
Any other features I should look out for ? Other similar boats?

Thanks in advance.

If it were me, go after a 38 and bid them down to closer to £100k

 

[SimonX]

“Seize the Day" but under no circumstances end up with two boats.

That’s the worry. Asking around it appears now is a good time to buy but not to sell. I’m getting our boat cleaned out and ready to sell but I’m not optimistic unless someone is specifically looking.

 

[SimonX]

If it were me, go after a 38 and bid them down to closer to £100k

This one looks very nice but a fair bit more than £100k
Broom 38 for sale UK, Broom boats for sale, Broom used boat sales, Broom Motor Boats For Sale 1999 Broom Ocean 38 - Apollo Duck
I think I’ll go look at it just to get a benchmark

 

[philipdawsonladds]

We were in the same position - eventually bought an Atlantic (Dutch built) which are much more boat for the money IMHO and very similar in layout and design - you definitely need more powerful twin diesels and some decent navigation equipment if travelling further afield

 

[SimonX]

some decent navigation equipment if travelling further afield

I think I’d probably budget to get some newer nav equipment unless the previous owner has already. I looked at replacing the very old Garmin equipment on my existing boat with something not latest generation but previous and there are are bargains to be had there,

 

[SimonX]

We were in the same position - eventually bought an Atlantic (Dutch built) which are much more boat for the money IMHO and very similar in layout and design - you definitely need more powerful twin diesels and some decent navigation equipment if travelling further afield

Good suggestion. This looked ideal part from (a) it’s sold and (b) only 75hp engines. Never heard of Beta Marine either.

 

[Dino]

The Atlantic 38 or 42 is a great option alright but I think you’ll get a Broom Ocean 38 for less. Atlantic built a nice 37 a while back but most are based in Holland and Germany. A friend had one here in Ireland and there was another on the River Shannon too.
One thing to watch out if you are planning to use the boat inland, is the Broom 37/39/41 are part of the offshore range as mentioned by Greg above. These draw 4ft 3in so a bit deep for inland use but they are supposed to be a very good sea boat.

 

[Tranona]

Good suggestion. This looked ideal part from (a) it’s sold and (b) only 75hp engines. Never heard of Beta Marine either.

Beta engines are Kubota based and very well regarded. Not commonly seen in this sort of boat as their main markets are sailing boats, commercial craft and canal boats. Good old fashioned low revving mechanical engines fine for displacement inland waterways use

 

[paulbrown22]

Never heard of Beta Marine either.

Nothing wrong with Beta Marine engines - marinised Kubota generator/tractor engines (with simple mechanical injection systems) designed for high hours usage which generally have a very good reputation (I'll await someone to shoot me for saying that...). Not as common perhaps as a Volvo Penta or Yanmar, but I'd very happily take a Beta engine - even Nordhavn started fitting them in their new(ish) 41.

 

[Alicatt]

We have an old, 1978, Broom Ocean 37, twin 145hp Perkins HT6354 diesel engines, really they are too powerful for the inland waterways, they are fine on the open rivers like the Maas where the speed limit is a good bit higher than on the Belgian canals, 95% of the time we are at idle or using one engine, with the consequence that when it does come time to open up a bit you leave a big smoke screen behind you.

It is a comfortable boat to cruise in, nice airy lounge with a good view out the windows, down side is that she has twin beds in the owner's cabin aft and in the fore cabin. Handling wise she is very manoeuvrable with the twin engines and keeps a good straight course with the long keel. The other big difference we see between the Ocean 37 and the local inland waterway boats is the hull shape, most of the boats here have straight sides coming to a transom where the Ocean 37 is very much more streamlined with the widest point coming about 1/3rd of the way back from the bow, this does cause a little bit of a problem in the locks as you are either bow out or stern out from the walls which can allow the water to push you off the wall and can be difficult to control.

We did think about a Bayliner 3055 which came up for sale in Roermond, she had V8 diesel engines but it was the air draught that put us off, she would not get under some of the fixed bridges in Belgium never mind the lower height of the bridges in France.

 

[SimonX]

Good suggestion. This looked ideal part from (a) it’s sold and (b) only 75hp engines. Never heard of Beta Marine either.

Don’t know why the link didn’t post: https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/atlantic-38-for-sale/806654

 

[SimonX]

We have an old, 1978, Broom Ocean 37, twin 145hp Perkins HT6354 diesel engines, really they are too powerful for the inland waterways, they are fine on the open rivers like the Maas where the speed limit is a good bit higher than on the Belgian canals, 95% of the time we are at idle or using one engine, with the consequence that when it does come time to open up a bit you leave a big smoke screen behind you.

It is a comfortable boat to cruise in, nice airy lounge with a good view out the windows, down side is that she has twin beds in the owner's cabin aft and in the fore cabin. Handling wise she is very manoeuvrable with the twin engines and keeps a good straight course with the long keel. The other big difference we see between the Ocean 37 and the local inland waterway boats is the hull shape, most of the boats here have straight sides coming to a transom where the Ocean 37 is very much more streamlined with the widest point coming about 1/3rd of the way back from the bow, this does cause a little bit of a problem in the locks as you are either bow out or stern out from the walls which can allow the water to push you off the wall and can be difficult to control.

We did think about a Bayliner 3055 which came up for sale in Roermond, she had V8 diesel engines but it was the air draught that put us off, she would not get under some of the fixed bridges in Belgium never mind the lower height of the bridges in France.

Thanks, that’s very interesting, I hadn’t really considered going older but it might be worth getting something older and having a bit in reserve for upgrades and suchlike. Have yiu had any age related issues with hull, windows and suchlike?
The arch on the Bayliner is in theory removable and I did consider looking at getting it modified to fold hydraulically but when I looked the bolts are very difficult to access and were totally seized. Combined with the other issues, it’s not really an inland boat. It’s very twitchy at low speeds. It was a fun toy for short runs and impressive at speed but it’s not what we need for where we want to go now.

 

[Alicatt]

Thanks, that’s very interesting, I hadn’t really considered going older but it might be worth getting something older and having a bit in reserve for upgrades and suchlike. Have yiu had any age related issues with hull, windows and suchlike?
The arch on the Bayliner is in theory removable and I did consider looking at getting it modified to fold hydraulically but when I looked the bolts are very difficult to access and were totally seized. Combined with the other issues, it’s not really an inland boat. It’s very twitchy at low speeds. It was a fun toy for short runs and impressive at speed but it’s not what we need for where we want to go now.

It really depends on how the engines are looked after, our boat engines have done almost 4000hrs and are a bit tired now, still they produce enough power to get the boat up to the book speed from when they were new, the hull is fine and well made. Windows hmmm they are well known for leaking and we have addressed that in a temporary fashion until she comes out the water shortly when we will pull the windows out in preparation for painting the superstructure and then replace the windows with new seals etc.

Engines are big slow revving and with plenty of torque, at idle it does not matter if you use one or two engines the speed difference is about 1km/h it's not until you get up above 1500rpm when you hear the turbos spinning up and they give the boat a good shove, top speed is slightly more than 17knots at about 12knots she is very bow high and above that it comes down. In the 1960's and 70's my father had a lorry with the Perkins 6.354 engine in it, great starter and very economical to run.
We have a radar arch on the boat which has to be lowered to get under two of the bridges on our canal, with it up the boat is 4.4m and with it lowered 3.5m, you can then lower the windows and take her down to 2.5m.

The boat suits us, we did look at a few different ones and a few Broom boats too, the Broom Continental was nice but the location of the galley put my wife off.
The older ones share the same hull, the Broom 37, Continental, Ocean 37, and Crown all have the same hull and different engine options, they stopped making these boats around 83-84 when Perkins stopped making the horizontal engine.

This year we have put over 760km (410NM) on the boat, used maybe about 300litres of diesel. Only stopping because of an incident in a lock we are waiting to get resolved, got some damage to the boat that needs repaired from the other party's insurance.


In the Yacht Haven at Veghel last September.

 

[Greg2]

One thing to watch out if you are planning to use the boat inland, is the Broom 37/39/41 are part of the offshore range as mentioned by Greg above. These draw 4ft 3in so a bit deep for inland use but they are supposed to be a very good sea boat.

A fair point but the only thing I would say is that we used our Broom 41 extensively inland as well as at sea and she was equally at home in both. In reality the difference in draught between a 41 at 1.29m and a 38 at 1.06m isn't significant for many inland waterways, albeit I accept that that might be different in the canals of Belgium where you are based.

 

[Alicatt]

A fair point but the only thing I would say is that we used our Broom 41 extensively inland as well as at sea and she was equally at home in both. In reality the difference in draught between a 41 at 1.29m and a 38 at 1.06m isn't significant for many inland waterways, albeit I accept that that might be different in the canals of Belgium where you are based.

It's at the sides of the smaller canals where your 1.29m might be a drawback, We have to watch carefully coming alongside the banks as even at 1.1m draught we can touch bottom before we are closer than about 1.5m from the bank. Its a bit disconcerting seeing a 55m freighter sitting alongside the canal bank and you can get nowhere near the bank.
Most of the canals are 2m plus, our branch canal can get to be less than a meter under the keel and then there is the weed...
The Albert Kanaal is the big one that runs from Antwerp to Maastricht, it is over 6m deep in most places, 100m+ wide, and has a lot of zones where you can get a move on, still most of the barges travel at about 15km/h with a speed limit of 18km/h.

Having a single screw makes a big difference in being able to get alongside the canal banks, we have to choose very carefully where we park up as we do risk touching the bottom with a prop,