Looking at Traders: mad, or what?

[sailorman]

Thanks everybody for your contributions, I appreciate.
A few comments following the order of your posts:

@ admillington: thanks for the pointer, but the 64 is above the limit myself and swmbo gave ourselves in terms of size to clean/handle/take care of, etc.

@ sharpness: re. "great looking boat", you must be joking!?! I can see several reasons for considering a Trader, but their look surely isn't one of them...

@ portofino: not sure to see what you mean. 'Course an Itama is much better for Med day trips in glorious weather, but what I'm after is a boat for living aboard 6 months or more each year, and in this respect if you can name me one which is much better than the 535/575 (at comparable sizes of course), I'm all ears.

@ Deleted User: yep, all understood & agreed. Fuel burn at more than D speed is not something I'm much worried about - I would use her at D speed most of the time anyway, and with fin stabs I suppose she can only be better than any non-stabilized P boat.
Besides, the Wesmar stabs installed in most of the Traders seem to be upgradable to zero speed, which would be a significant additional bonus, though I'm not yet sure about such possibility (and its cost).
Otoh, poor s/steel quality sounds worrying - I'll keep that in mind if and when I'll see one in flesh.

@ iledesprit: thanks for reporting your experience, I'll send you a pm with a more personal question.

Isnt Seadweller for sale @ Essex Boats, She was well loved & in good nick

 

[maybh1]

Isnt Seadweller for sale @ Essex Boats, She was well loved & in good nick

She is all but sold Roger - I understand the sale will be completed on Friday

It won't be a happy day for me - she was certainly well loved

May
xx

 

[MapisM]

MapisM, I stand to be corrected on this one but I would have thought that maintaining and even replacing a teak deck fixed atop a grp base would, whilst not an insignificant undertaking, be in a different league from the issues involved in a wooden boat where any surface problems commonly turn out to have a structural origin.

Yup, there is indeed a major difference.
But you know, after years of neverending sanding/painting/caulking/whatever, IF I will ever buy another boat, she must have "practical" written all over her!
Btw, nicer as it may feel walking on teak compared to anti-skid GRP, in the Med sun I'd rather have GRP regardless of maintenance, just because it's much cooler.

 

[MapisM]

I agree. When I was looking at Fairline Targas a new teak deck and bathing platform was only a couple of £ thousand and would have a life expectancy of 15 years or so. Of course a knackered one can be factored into the purchase price.

Such quotation is bound to be for pre-laid teak panels rather than single solid planks caulked, I suppose.
Either that, or it was made by someone who likes to work without even recovering his own costs!

 

[benjenbav]

She is all but sold Roger - I understand the sale will be completed on Friday

It won't be a happy day for me - she was certainly well loved

May
xx

I can't say I agree with the old saw about the two best days of boat ownership. The day when the boat is first yours is, undeniably, special. But the days when any of mine have gone out of my life have always been tinged with regret.

 

[sailorman]

She is all but sold Roger - I understand the sale will be completed on Friday

It won't be a happy day for me - she was certainly well loved

May
xx

Sad but good news May :encouragement:

 

[Newbroom]

She is all but sold Roger - I understand the sale will be completed on Friday

It won't be a happy day for me - she was certainly well loved

May
xx

May
I commiserate with you I still miss mine today. We were actually in Emsworth when you took delivery and chewed the cud with you back then when you was waiting for the yard to finish her.
Dave

 

[Portofino]

Something like this ? MapisM -a bit of style /razzmatazz -does not look like a floating caravan -not abvious live aboard
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=a51b8200-0c64-4df2-b7a9-26672388144e

Agree re teak + Med + long term
I deliberately hunted down a none teak version -(except bathing platform -solid 12mm )

 

[MapisM]

Something like this ? MapisM -a bit of style /razzmatazz -does not look like a floating caravan -not abvious live aboard
http://www.mondialbroker.com/Barca.aspx?pk=a51b8200-0c64-4df2-b7a9-26672388144e

ROTFL, razzmatazz!?!
I can't for the life of me think of a better summary of what we do NOT look for, in a boat!

That said, I did check out also a 'hattan 56, because on paper she fits nicely our size/budget, and she's the only boat which does that with the added bonus of the lifting platform (possibly the first boat to fit it as standard, IIRC?).
But saying that I wasn't impressed is an understatement.
Walkarounds are narrow, to the point of becoming ridiculous towards the bow, before reaching the anchor/cleats area. Inside spaces feel cramped, the big lazarette is nice for storing all sort of junk but its placement under the saloon is silly.
Besides, I didn't like also the equipment installation/accessibility within the e/r, and I saw some electrical panels badly corroded, though that might have been a problem of that particular boat (the cover locks were broken).

Along the "bit of style" lines, I'd rather have a Uniesse 55 or Ferretti 57, which are imho much better in just about any way aside from the lack of lifting platform.
Not that we really care a lot about exterior look anyway, as I said at the beginning.
If we did, we wouldn't have bought our current boat back in 2000, to start with...

 

[IDAMAY]

Sorry to have been so long replying Mapism but have been out of Wifi for several days despite being in a "modern" marina (Laredo, Spain). I know of at least one other Trader fitted with ABT Trac Stabilisers and both were fitted as original equipment. I don't know of any that were fitted with zero rate ones. Good luck with your search.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Hardmy how are you getting on with that Rocna anchor?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

That said, I did check out also a 'hattan 56, because on paper she fits nicely our size/budget, and she's the only boat which does that with the added bonus of the lifting platform (possibly the first boat to fit it as standard, IIRC?).
But saying that I wasn't impressed is an understatement.
Walkarounds are narrow, to the point of becoming ridiculous towards the bow, before reaching the anchor/cleats area. Inside spaces feel cramped, the big lazarette is nice for storing all sort of junk but its placement under the saloon is silly.
Besides, I didn't like also the equipment installation/accessibility within the e/r, and I saw some electrical panels badly corroded, though that might have been a problem of that particular boat (the cover locks were broken).

Same conclusions as we drew when we've looked at them in the past and as you say builders like Ferretti do it a lot better

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Apart all the things you mention wait till you ride the 56 Manhattan and your disappointment grows much further.
Really not the best sea handling hull from Sunseeker in both its hattan and Predator forms.
I think also the most stupid thing in the Manahattan 56 is also its central cockpit entrance which is a pain when lounging with people on the aft deck.

Also as for your Thread question considering the way you started looking at boats, I think yes you are mad

 

[Hardmy]

Along the "bit of style" lines, I'd rather have a Uniesse 55 or Ferretti 57, which are imho much better in just about any way aside from the lack of lifting platform.

Big +1 on that!

Hardmy how are you getting on with that Rocna anchor?

I bought a Mantus and its like day and night compared to before. Had a couple of weeks ago 40kts of wind on Keffalonia and all was fine. My anchor alarm on the iPad never went off a single time since I changed. Next step will be a new chain, and swap the 66m. with 100m. Somebody told me to think about it, because of the additional weight in the bow. But those 80-90 kg won’t change much of the boat’s behavior?

 

[vas]

I bought a Mantus and its like day and night compared to before. Had a couple of weeks ago 40kts of wind on Keffalonia and all was fine. My anchor alarm on the iPad never went off a single time since I changed. Next step will be a new chain, and swap the 66m. with 100m. Somebody told me to think about it, because of the additional weight in the bow. But those 80-90 kg won’t change much of the boat’s behavior?

sorry for the OT MM I'm afraid I've nothing to contribute other than yes it's going to be lower maintenance, yes it looks okayish, and fits the bill, so who am I to disagree? If we establish a fashion police, then I'll apply and if accepted I could argue against some points already noted (but not major...)

Hardmy,

I'm also thinking of replacing my Bruce copy to something slightly better. I know it's not difficult to achieve that (even going to a Delta copy I should be miles off better...) but I was also looking at Mantus.
I like the modularity and the way it's assembled as I feel it overcomes issues of bad/corroded welds you may get on Rocnas, Manson's etc (from what I've read at least...)

Any nasties? I note you have overdone it sizewise, what chain are you on 10mm or 12mm?

Finally, any reasonably priced places to get one, did you get it in Greece or elsewhere?

cheers

V.

 

[Hardmy]

I purchased the Mantus in NL (google Ildost Marine) because I wasn't able to find it cheaper in Greece. It costed EUR 835 (incl. tax) for the 85 lbs model delivered at the boat in Preveza.

As regards the choice process. I read many anchor tests, listened to many people. The English recommend Rocna, the Germans are for the Bugel, and so on. But at the end of the day, I chose Mantus a) because of this (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html) thread and b) because of its modularity. If something bends or rusts, you just dismantle the offending part, send it back and get a replacement.

I think I prefer to have 100m. of 10mm chain than 60m. of 12mm chain. So I'll stick to 10mm.

 

[MapisM]

Also as for your Thread question considering the way you started looking at boats, I think yes you are mad

Haha, yeah, I see your point, W.
Even if I've yet to see a Trader in flesh, I don't hope for a minute that they can be anywhere near, in terms of overall build quality, to some of the finest "made in IT" vessels like VZ, Uniesse, DP, etc.
And truth be told, I'd be much happier to fly my tricolour flag on an elegant IT vessel, rather than some taiwanese stuff - with all due respect for all Trader/Kha Shing owners, some of which very kindly contributed to this thread.

All that said, it's undeniable that for our type of boat usage Traders have several remarkable advantages.
By and large, to get the spaces available in a 535/575 Trader, we should go significantly bigger with a "normal" P boat - at least to a SL62 or a VZ18, just as an example.
And I would love both of them, btw! But after thinking long and hard, we decided to rule them out because a bit too large, keeping 18m lenght/5m width as our max size limits (which as you know, are both well exceeded also by the VZ18, in spite of her name).

Bottom line, if you are aware of anything afloat that can offer external and internal spaces comparable to the Trader within these limits, I'm all ears!
Oh, and before you mention it, I'm afraid my first mate is not willing to consider alternatives which could be attractive from other viewpoints, like this one, as an example...

 

[jfm]

ROTFL, razzmatazz!?!
I can't for the life of me think of a better summary of what we do NOT look for, in a boat!

That said, I did check out also a 'hattan 56, because on paper she fits nicely our size/budget, and she's the only boat which does that with the added bonus of the lifting platform (possibly the first boat to fit it as standard, IIRC?).
But saying that I wasn't impressed is an understatement.
Walkarounds are narrow, to the point of becoming ridiculous towards the bow, before reaching the anchor/cleats area. Inside spaces feel cramped, the big lazarette is nice for storing all sort of junk but its placement under the saloon is silly.
Besides, I didn't like also the equipment installation/accessibility within the e/r, and I saw some electrical panels badly corroded, though that might have been a problem of that particular boat (the cover locks were broken).

Along the "bit of style" lines, I'd rather have a Uniesse 55 or Ferretti 57, which are imho much better in just about any way aside from the lack of lifting platform.
Not that we really care a lot about exterior look anyway, as I said at the beginning.
If we did, we wouldn't have bought our current boat back in 2000, to start with...

+1. I have looked at these boats plenty and driven one at sea. In addition to your comments, the boat lacks beam and the exhausts are very noisy to the point where the thing is hard work to sit on the flybridge and cruise on. Fuel tanks are small too.
MapisM I realise it is personal choice but I do not get your 18m size limit at least to the extent it is based on "ability to handle" with 2 people (if I'm understanding correctly, which I might not be). I do not understand the case for saying 20-22-24m (or thereabouts) is any harder then 18m. As you know I have switched from a couple of 18m to a couple of 24m and I often cruise with 2 people, and there is just no difference in handling. There IS a difference in cleaning the thing (eg when it red-rains 20 mins before your guests arrive) and perhaps that is why you draw a line at 18m

 

[Portofino]

Ok Hatten is a duffer
Point taken -it's Allways diff to "boat find "-for other peeps
What about a Leapard sport 20-24 M ish open - plenty of space and if knackered engines ,perhaps re-engine @ D speed ?
€€€ need to man maths add up
Should stab up -ok ?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I bought a Mantus and its like day and night compared to before.

Ah sorry my mistake. I have never heard of a Mantus but it looks very similar to a Rocna