Long term live-aboard cruising on European waterways cannot be over for us Brits

Do they check VAT "status"? That is what matters to determine whether a boat is entering under TA or RGR. This is customs rather than border control. TA requires third country registration of boat. Registration of boat is irrelevant for RGR. Now there will be many more British registered boats that are eligible for RGR. How is the clerk in the marina office going to tell the difference?

My experience is limited but have not been asked about VAT status in Ireland, France, Spain or Portugal, in marinas, on mooring or, when stopped underway. What I do know is that Bruce has to submit weekly returns to authorities - copies of boat registration, insurance and passports for all boats arriving in the yard. Only time I submitted T2L was voluntarily, when requesting PM to inspect my boat on 31/12 to keep EU VAT status.
 
My experience is limited but have not been asked about VAT status in Ireland, France, Spain or Portugal, in marinas, on mooring or, when stopped underway. What I do know is that Bruce has to submit weekly returns to authorities - copies of boat registration, insurance and passports for all boats arriving in the yard. Only time I submitted T2L was voluntarily, when requesting PM to inspect my boat on 31/12 to keep EU VAT status.
That is my whole point. When UK boats had free circulation VAT status was not an issue, although customs could always ask for evidence if they suspected a boat was being imported for example, or a boat was exceeding the TA limit (for example the many Swiss owned boats kept in the EU under TA). The nearest parallel for the new situation for Brits is the Channel Islands which are a third country. Owners of boats there regularly visit France and mainland UK without any difficulty or formally entering. Customs deal with potential violations by exception. There are now over 20 states individually responsible for policing their borders and enforcing VAT rules against visiting UK boats, and there does not seem to be a consistent system to do this.
 
We're going to have to get married/civil partnered to facilitate 'our' continued FoM!!! After a happy 25 years unmarried, that's certainly an 'unnecessary' consequence of Brexit!
It's perhaps likely that any single sailors will be hitting internet dating sites specifying any schengen country as their future male/female targets nationality...!
 
You keep telling us this, but never any specifics! The very real and documented consequence of overstaying in Schengen is being barred from future re-entry. Most - any sane person, I would argue - will not be willing to risk this. Especially if being deported leaves your boat/home in the EU without you!
Well I have said in the past how people can extend the 90 into almost 6 months but I get throw back at me what you just wrote , so best advise I have you is enjoy your 90 days then leave the EU.
I know what the rules say but in all the years we been doing this I not heard or read about any third country cruiser who been barred, fined, refused re entry, locked up or lost their boat for over staying , slap on their hand yes , and personally we know plenty of non EU sailors.
The only people we heard that had fines are not related to over staying.
Sending out a mayday in Greece or just asking for a towb is more likely to cause you much more problem .
 
I know what the rules say but in all the years we been doing this I not heard or read about any third country cruiser who been barred, fined, refused re entry, locked up or lost their boat for over staying , slap on their hand yes , and personally we know plenty of non EU sailors.
The only people we heard that had fines are not related to over staying

Which misses the point that many have made - the Schengen system is being automated this year and the overstays become automatically assigned.
If you have to travel to your boat passing a ferry terminal, airport or Eurostar station, then your entry will be logged in to the database.
 
Which misses the point that many have made - the Schengen system is being automated this year and the overstays become automatically assigned.
If you have to travel to your boat passing a ferry terminal, airport or Eurostar station, then your entry will be logged in to the database.
Your quite right .
Most of the full time crusiers don't tho , we cruise from country to country , we don't stay in one country all year round , we don't jump in our cars and drive back and fro.
For them going back and fro to the UK, they don't have a problem .
Come out early drive back of fly back in the high of the summer like many do then come back out and enjoy last summer autumn sailing.

I'm not perpair to get into a back and fro discussions about this , though who wish to go by all the rules unless you got residency in a EU country then you have one option ,
leave after 90 days .
 
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There are now over 20 states individually responsible for policing their borders and enforcing VAT rules against visiting UK boats, and there does not seem to be a consistent system to do this.

Over 20 different counties with thousands of jobsworths, each with their own interpretation of the law, could be fun and games :)

In the short term, I wouldn't be surprised to see more interest than previously in UK boats and crew but, expect it to settle down as time passes. We know the authorities are notified when a boat arrives in a marina but, what happens when it leaves? If crew are logged into Schengen database on arrival, are they logged out again on departure so any time spent on anchor before next marina is below the radar? Hopefully, cruises this year will provide info we don't yet have.

PM in Portugal often photograph boat names on moorings and on anchor and I'm told details are logged but, suspect they're looking more at unusual movements tied to drug trafficking.
 
Over 20 different counties with thousands of jobsworths, each with their own interpretation of the law, could be fun and games :)

In the short term, I wouldn't be surprised to see more interest than previously in UK boats and crew but, expect it to settle down as time passes. We know the authorities are notified when a boat arrives in a marina but, what happens when it leaves? If crew are logged into Schengen database on arrival, are they logged out again on departure so any time spent on anchor before next marina is below the radar? Hopefully, cruises this year will provide info we don't yet have.

PM in Portugal often photograph boat names on moorings and on anchor and I'm told details are logged but, suspect they're looking more at unusual movements tied to drug trafficking.
Exactly. That is the point I have been making. I agree that it will settle down and may not prove to be a big deal. However for many south coast yachties used to popping over the channel and down the west coast, often avoiding marinas and what are now Ports of Entry it may mean more formality to actually check in and out. Also for Schengen purposes your passport determines your status. For the boat the registration paper is to comply with international maritime law and may or may not have relevance for the boat status in the EU. As we see in these discussions determining whether a boat is eligible for RGR or TA is not straightforward and in the absence of any form of official certification requires a variety of evidence - including as in your case a photo of your boat on a mooring!
 
Therefore, as I said, you need to follow (and base your plans) on the 2021 rules as they are, not the rules as you wish them to be - it's not difficult, and I'm not saying anymore than that.
As I said to you earlier it people who voted for Brexit have restricted my FoM to cruise freely as I have done for the last 30+ years. Of course it’s not difficult keeping to the new rules- it’s just extremely frustrating. There are cruisers on this forum who are effectively in denial on how the new rules HAVE affected our freedom - one of the many reasons why we have chosen to do it in the first place. Even now, visit’s to France / Belgium / Netherlands / Channel Islands are now fraught with checking in and out, with time and burocracy involved. I’ll wish Vic luck on his future cruising and please let us know how you get on bending any rules you have in mind.
 
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I haven't seen my boat, which I keep in France, since last year. I brought home sails, cushions, outboard motor, clothing and many other items to be cleaned and repaired.


What will happen when I return to France with all this stuff in my car? Am I going to have to pay duties on it when I arrive at the ferry terminal?
 
I haven't seen my boat, which I keep in France, since last year. I brought home sails, cushions, outboard motor, clothing and many other items to be cleaned and repaired.


What will happen when I return to France with all this stuff in my car? Am I going to have to pay duties on it when I arrive at the ferry terminal?
A question many of us are asking. Just waiting for the first guinea pig to try it out when we are released from jail ?
 
Third world country's cruisers have been doing it for many many years . But then there are not Brits, first question a brits ask ,when they arrive is where the PP office the first question a Ozzie ask is , where the best bar . :)

As I understand it the approaches to actually track the length of Schengen stays was previously rather fragmented and ineffective - perhaps resulting in a low risk of being found out if flying below the radar.
However, I heard a new Schengen wide computer system is being implemented to track stays much more rigorously (perhaps from next year?). This would make trying to break the rules much more risky.
If Croatia joins Schengen as anticipated, that will further narrow the options.
 
As I said to you earlier it people who voted for Brexit have restricted my FoM to cruise freely as I have done for the last 30+ years. Of course it’s not difficult keeping to the new rules- it’s just extremely frustrating. There are cruisers on this forum who are effectively in denial on how the new rules HAVE affected our freedom - one of the many reasons why we have chosen to do it in the first place. Even now, visit’s to France / Belgium / Netherlands / Channel Islands are now fraught with checking in and out, with time and burocracy involved. I’ll wish Vic luck on his future cruising and please let us know how you get on bending any rules you have in mind.
Thanks for wishing me luck but I think its not me who going to need it .
Has so many seen to be interested in my down fall ,
I will try and post where I am each month If anyone like to contribute towards the cost of local newspapers I will buy and post a photo copy just so you all know I'm not sitting in a cold damp cell .
 
As I understand it the approaches to actually track the length of Schengen stays was previously rather fragmented and ineffective - perhaps resulting in a low risk of being found out if flying below the radar.
However, I heard a new Schengen wide computer system is being implemented to track stays much more rigorously (perhaps from next year?). This would make trying to break the rules much more risky.
If Croatia joins Schengen as anticipated, that will further narrow the options.
Whats going to happen in the future is unknown to any of us ,
If covid doesn't get sorted there maybe no cruising for any of us .
So the less of our worries is Schengen
 
You keep telling us this, but never any specifics! The very real and documented consequence of overstaying in Schengen is being barred from future re-entry. Most - any sane person, I would argue - will not be willing to risk this. Especially if being deported leaves your boat/home in the EU without you!
It's very simple.. You now have to cruise in areas where you can make a quick exit... For example Greece. From here you can go to Albania or Montenegro or Turkey... Or cruise Italy and go to Tunisia. Admitted we can not be a lazy as yesteryear but other countries will give us longer cheaper visas eventually. How about 90 days in Canaries 90 days in Morocco? Life is still good ya!!!!?
 
Thanks for wishing me luck but I think its not me who going to need it .
Has so many seen to be interested in my down fall ,
I will try and post where I am each month If anyone like to contribute towards the cost of local newspapers I will buy and post a photo copy just so you all know I'm not sitting in a cold damp cell .

Vic, I have every faith that you will continue as you always have, playing the system to your advantage?

People, who ask you for specifics, miss the point that you stay flexible and respond to every situation as it arises. To do this you need to have a good knowledge of the rules but an eye for the possible; playing it as you see it. It is essential to have a Plan B ready to roll out.

Bit like every day life in Portugal?

This takes a special personality so I would council caution to others who may try to emulate your approach.
 
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Vic, I have every faith that you will continue as you always have, playing the system to your advantage?

People, who ask you for specifics, miss the point that you stay flexible and respond to every situation as it arises. To do this you need to have a good knowledge of the rules but an eye for the possible; playing it as you see it. It is essential to have a Plan B ready to roll out.

Bit like every day life in Portugal?

This takes a special personality so I would council caution to others who may try to emulate your approach.
For the record .
People have ask how they can extend there 90/180 so they can carry on sailing in the EU for at less most of the summer .
I have given then a way around it , just the same way many non Eu sailor have been doing for as many years I been out here,
I all way said that it mean bending the rules , I have never hinded that , I wouldn't hide that as I do want people to know the risk they taken if they do as I suggested ,
I am in no way forcing anyone to do as suggested ,
everyone has there own view how far they are happy to go with risk taken.
It's been very clear for a long time now once we leave the EU things won't be the same , option was very clear
Residency, ( which still won't give you free movement in the whole of the EU ) become an EU citizen ( which will give you free monument within the EU ) marry an EU citizen ( even I won't go that far to stay in the EU :) ), find a way around it , or spend 90 days and get out of the EU .
End off ...
So people need to except what's happen , stop moaning about it and make a choice and get on with their life .

Last of all , I'm available for best man service if anyone thinking of taken the option of marring a Eu Women or man .
 
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