Lofrans tigres intermittent fault

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nmeyrick

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I'd appreciate any advice the panel have on this as I have exhausted most of the avenues I can think of.

When i bought my boat a few years ago the tigres windlass was very temperamental and would usually not work, instead when it was powered up and the switch applied you would hear the solenoid clicking but nothing would happen.

This spring I set about it with a vengeance, lifting the unit from the deck and cleaning around, emptying the oil and cleaning as far as possible inside. I replaced all seals I could access, reassembled and refilled the oil. I also opened the back of the motor unit and cleaned the brushes and commutator with a soft brush, removing a fair bit of carbodust in the process.

When I put it all back together it seemed to work fine, and it always works first time now. However when using it in anger I have found that it will come onn and run for as long as I need to, but as soon as I stop it, for example to allow the boat to catch up to the chain run, it then fails to restart and instead i just get the clicking of the solenoid but no action. After resting for a few minutes it generally seems to come back to life, but this is rather unsettling if you are trying to pull up the hook in a hurry.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would cause the windlass to fail after use in this manner or tips of what to check?

Many thanks
Neil
 
Check the heavy duty connections.
If you are hauling chain and it fails to restart, go below and check for heat in the cables/joints.
You don't mention how far the battery is from the foredeck. If the cables are marginally too small, they may be stressing out.
Do you have any concrete proof that the system ever worked properly?
That was the easy bit...
It may be that one of the thrust bearings in the worm drive (Tigress has them?) is partially seizing under load - especially if the chain has not been snubbed elsewhere in the past.
 
Solenoid

nmeyrick said:
I'd appreciate any advice the panel have on this as I have exhausted most of the avenues I can think of.

When i bought my boat a few years ago the tigres windlass was very temperamental and would usually not work, instead when it was powered up and the switch applied you would hear the solenoid clicking but nothing would happen.

This spring I set about it with a vengeance, lifting the unit from the deck and cleaning around, emptying the oil and cleaning as far as possible inside. I replaced all seals I could access, reassembled and refilled the oil. I also opened the back of the motor unit and cleaned the brushes and commutator with a soft brush, removing a fair bit of carbodust in the process.

When I put it all back together it seemed to work fine, and it always works first time now. However when using it in anger I have found that it will come onn and run for as long as I need to, but as soon as I stop it, for example to allow the boat to catch up to the chain run, it then fails to restart and instead i just get the clicking of the solenoid but no action. After resting for a few minutes it generally seems to come back to life, but this is rather unsettling if you are trying to pull up the hook in a hurry.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would cause the windlass to fail after use in this manner or tips of what to check?

Many thanks
Neil
Click to expand...

I'd suspect the solenoid. Clicking does not necessarily means connecting as I found out with my starter solenoid at the engine. Measure the voltage at the motor when the solenoid clicks but nothing else happens. You can also use a clamp on ammeter (DC type [expensive I know but worth the investment anyway]). If it shows high amp flow but no action I would look at the mechanics or the commutator again.
 
jfkal said:
I'd suspect the solenoid. Clicking does not necessarily means connecting as I found out with my starter solenoid at the engine. Measure the voltage at the motor when the solenoid clicks but nothing else happens. You can also use a clamp on ammeter (DC type [expensive I know but worth the investment anyway]). If it shows high amp flow but no action I would look at the mechanics or the commutator again.
Click to expand...

My first thought was also the solenoid, where dirty contacts can cause a big voltage drop. What happens is that when you start the windlass the first time you have full battery voltage and the motor runs, but the voltage drops whilst it is running, and when you go to restart it there is not enough voltage to overcome the dirty contacts. Try putting the engine in neutral and revving it to about 1500 revs, to get a good current from the alternator, and see if the windlass restarts under those conditions.
 
Thanks guys, some good food for thought there, will try the suggestions when I'm next at the boat.

If the problem does look to be with the solenoids as sounds very possible, does anyone have experience of dismantling or servicing the lofrans control box? I'm aware many have replaced this with regular solenoids but would rather try and fix the existing box first if that is what's needed

Cheers
 
There,s a very good chance that you have an open circuit on the commutator.Dont ask me why but when you have, they very often stop on the faulty segment.Dont know the workings of the Lofrans but is it possible to turn the armature one commutator segment at a time and see if it fails.If so mark it .Turn 360 deg and see if it happens again..The only alternative is to take the armature out and take to a motor winding shop .They should be able to repair/resolder
 
nmeyrick said:
i just get the clicking of the solenoid but no action...
Click to expand...

Are you sure the clicking is from a solenoid? The solenoid in in the control box, not in the windlass.

If the clicking is from the control box, then check your wiring for poor connections. These can be dismantled, but I suggest only as a temporary measure.

If the clicking is from the windlass, then it is the dogs inside the clutch not connecting. The sound is a regular "click click click" at the normal rate of the motor. If you find a cure for this, let me know!
 
Last edited:
Windlass fault

I had the same fault with mine.
Turned out the brushes were binding in their casings and even the very strong springs
were not enough to keep them firmly on the armature.
Filed them down a bit and know works fine.
The give away is burnt faces on the brushes.
 
nedmin said:
There,s a very good chance that you have an open circuit on the commutator.Dont ask me why but when you have, they very often stop on the faulty segment.r
Click to expand...
is it that it frequently stops in the same place, perhaps due to a slightly higher friction / bind point. next as it frequently starts at that point, the electrical load makes that segment fail?
 
nmeyrick said:
Thanks guys, some good food for thought there, will try the suggestions when I'm next at the boat.

If the problem does look to be with the solenoids as sounds very possible, does anyone have experience of dismantling or servicing the lofrans control box? I'm aware many have replaced this with regular solenoids but would rather try and fix the existing box first if that is what's needed

Cheers
Click to expand...
Yes, except a kind electrician friend removed, dismantled and overhauled the solenoid whilst I observed. He removed the burned and uneven surfaced copper with a flat file. He reassembled it and it has worked correctly ever since.

I would now have the courage to tackle the job myself, if the need ever arose.

Good luck.
 
I have the similar problem but it seems to work when the top of the winch is "tapped" with the manual handle. I will try to look again at the brushes and maybe the tight/dusty guides are the problem. Do you describe the solenoid as the solenoid that transfers the foot switch currents to the larger heavy duty cables direct to the electric motor.


I found the earlier replies most useful.
 
A clicking solenoid is the result of poor connections or low battery charge, the first is the most common. Check battery and solenoid connections for tightness and corrosion. When I had that it was the solenoid connections from the battery were getting rusty, I couldn't see it behind the nut, I cleaned them and covered them in vaseline, I never had the problem again.
 
Mudisox said:
I have the similar problem but it seems to work when the top of the winch is "tapped" with the manual handle. I will try to look again at the brushes and maybe the tight/dusty guides are the problem. Do you describe the solenoid as the solenoid that transfers the foot switch currents to the larger heavy duty cables direct to the electric motor.


I found the earlier replies most useful.
Click to expand...

Working after tapping the casing implies sticking cogs inside the gearbox of the windlass.
When was the last time the oil in the box was replaced, and IS THERE ANY OIL inthere ???

I noticed when restoring mine (all documented and discussed here: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?293957-gipsy-gone&highlight=gipsy+gone ) that stripper which is SS corrodes where the screws go through to the casing and in my case all oil leaked out of there so gypsy was working dry...

Anyway, if it's not electrical, you got to take it apart and service it. Servicing mine costed the new seals only (and an awful lot of time figuring out how to take it apart...)

Yes, that's the solenoid, mine was also pitted and wouldn't transfer the currents over to the motor, flat file and half an hour later all was fine.

cheers

V.
 
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