Lobster pots: what happens and what do you do?

webcraft said:
If you can't deal with a few pot markers then why not take up golf?

- W
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Are you saying that to the young man who died trying to free up his propeller from a rope?
I believe that the death of a single man makes your position untenable and distastefully cynical.
 
haydude said:
Are you saying that to the young man who died trying to free up his propeller from a rope?
I believe that the death of a single man makes your position untenable and distastefully cynical.
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well said.

Again I ask as still no answer. Why do you (fishermen)resolutely refuse to accept responsiblity for marking your pots??? Forget all the noble warriors of the sea stuff, just answer the question. WHY is it impossible for you to do this. If you have no reasoned argument, then your actions are seemingly deliberate, and as distastefully cynical as haydude suggests.
 
Well I've been waiting for a gap in the bullets screamimg overhead before I dared pop my head up. Mind you a few years ago I did get upset when someone referred to fishermen as gung ho cowboys with limited seamanship skills who deserve to drown at the first opportunity, but I since learned that this is only light-hearted banter.

Please remember that the part-timer that lays pots for pin money in his spare time is not a 'fisherman' IMO. He will keep his pots on a bit of ground that I've left long ago, catch every lobster that pops up, because he can afford to. This unlicensed and unregulated activity can be as extensive as, and more damaging than commercial activity.

Pots cut off and lost do not continue ghost fishing, unless entirely made of metal or tough plastic. The crabs chew the netting through. Crabs will live happily in a pot for six months, but rarely stay that long.

Most fishermen will not throw even a cling film sandwich wrapper over the side, let alone rope and net. I do over 1000 hours a year at sea, who's more likely to pick it up? Local fishermen have joined a scheme to bring in any rubbish they see, I always have, and some seasons filled up a skip. Discarded monofilament nylon netting is collected and paid for by a firm that makes it into plastic pallets.

In the olden days we had sisal rope, and it had to be kept off the bottom, hence a string of 5 or 6 balls on the end to keep it up: some people seem not to have realised that polyprop floats and do the same. If I run into one of these I don't even try to avoid it.

Pot marks, however rigged, are always a possible hazard, so I try to minimize this. In my case I use a buff (round red danfender) on 8mm leaded rope. in tide the rope is vertical under the buff, you should brush past, as should bigger ships. If you do get caught the rope should part soonish, which I would prefer because I don't want you in trouble, and I don't want my gear carried away hitched to you. I can always creep it up. I could use a dahn, flag on a stick, but this makes two targets for you, and no use at night.

There are about ten boats potting between The Manacles and 3nm west of the Lizard, each with at least 20 ends. That's 2000 buffs or dahns, let alone the neap tide netters: not many incidents reported, considering. I think I would have heard of any serious yacht incidents, via the local RNLI.

I don't agree with the use of a 'tailer', the pickup ball a few fm from the buff, it should be a dahn, and it should be on a weighted stray.

I think you need to contact the local Sea Fishery Officer, an employee of the council. He can initiate discussion with the fishermen, make recommendations. Raise the particular issues in your area. Harbour authorities can make any rule they like. I wouldn't recommend the balaclavas and sten guns spitting death approach. You don't catch flies with vinegar.

I have recommended pruning shears on here many times. Knife on a stick is not much good. The lifeboat carries a 'ripper', a stainless blade on a long stainless tube handle. It has a bar welded to the blade end at a narrow angle.
I have often thought I would fit a prop access tunnel. Relatively simple, big round or square tube glassed to the hull, top above the wl, with waterproof fitting at the top. I would keep the piece of hull removed with a rubber seal, to fair the water flow.

That someone should have died is horrific, but, and please count to ten before you fire into me, it was his decision to go over the side, was it prudent?
 
fisherman said:
Well I've been waiting for a gap in the bullets screamimg overhead before I dared pop my head up. Mind you a few years ago I did get upset when someone referred to fishermen as gung ho cowboys with limited seamanship skills who deserve to drown at the first opportunity, but I since learned that this is only light-hearted banter.

Please remember that the part-timer that lays pots for pin money in his spare time is not a 'fisherman' IMO. He will keep his pots on a bit of ground that I've left long ago, catch every lobster that pops up, because he can afford to. This unlicensed and unregulated activity can be as extensive as, and more damaging than commercial activity.

Pots cut off and lost do not continue ghost fishing, unless entirely made of metal or tough plastic. The crabs chew the netting through. Crabs will live happily in a pot for six months, but rarely stay that long.

Most fishermen will not throw even a cling film sandwich wrapper over the side, let alone rope and net. I do over 1000 hours a year at sea, who's more likely to pick it up? Local fishermen have joined a scheme to bring in any rubbish they see, I always have, and some seasons filled up a skip. Discarded monofilament nylon netting is collected and paid for by a firm that makes it into plastic pallets.

In the olden days we had sisal rope, and it had to be kept off the bottom, hence a string of 5 or 6 balls on the end to keep it up: some people seem not to have realised that polyprop floats and do the same. If I run into one of these I don't even try to avoid it.

Pot marks, however rigged, are always a possible hazard, so I try to minimize this. In my case I use a buff (round red danfender) on 8mm leaded rope. in tide the rope is vertical under the buff, you should brush past, as should bigger ships. If you do get caught the rope should part soonish, which I would prefer because I don't want you in trouble, and I don't want my gear carried away hitched to you. I can always creep it up. I could use a dahn, flag on a stick, but this makes two targets for you, and no use at night.


I don't agree with the use of a 'tailer', the pickup ball a few fm from the buff, it should be a dahn, and it should be on a weighted stray.

I think you need to contact the local Sea Fishery Officer, an employee of the council. He can initiate discussion with the fishermen, make recommendations. Raise the particular issues in your area. Harbour authorities can make any rule they like. I wouldn't recommend the balaclavas and sten guns spitting death approach. You don't catch flies with vinegar.
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At last some sound input from at least one responsible fisherman.
I can only repeat the question though, to the rest who do not follow the practices above.
Why not?
Do you consider it too expensive, too time consuming or or or do you really just not give a damn about other people's safety.
 
blueglass said:
I can only repeat the question though, to the rest who do not follow the practices above.
Why not?
Do you [...]
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I don't know why you're trying to ask them questions in this forum - it's highly unlikely that they read it.

Those of us you are frothing and yelling at are not fishermen, but fellow yachtsmen who are embarrassed at the way you perpetuate the arrogant and intolerant "yottie" image with which we do not wish to be associated.

I don't even disagree with you on the substantive point that pots ought to be well marked, but the way you (plural) argue it is distasteful in the extreme.

Pete
 
prv said:
I don't know why you're trying to ask them questions in this forum - it's highly unlikely that they read it.

Those of us you are frothing and yelling at are not fishermen, but fellow yachtsmen who are embarrassed at the way you perpetuate the arrogant and intolerant "yottie" image with which we do not wish to be associated.

I don't even disagree with you on the substantive point that pots ought to be well marked, but the way you (plural) argue it is distasteful in the extreme.

Pete
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You've hit the nail on the thumb here: I made this post almost word for word several times in the last 5 years, some folk would rather have a rant than do something constructive, like talk to the SFO.
 
prv,

Include me as 'they' if you like, I find Blueglass's approach restrained, and what he says admirable - same for Fisherman too BTW.

Fisherman, I'd only query one thing you said, that for want of a better phrase 'fishermen in general' don't throw plastic etc over the side...

I've been out in tiny inshore boats from Portscatho ( with people who are sadly not with us now ) and also once did a YM course with a young fisherman along doing Day Skipper - on both occasions everything went over the side, plastic, cans, rope, anything !

The chap on the Day Skipper only got the message when the rest of us - only half jokingly - physically restrained him " green boat ! ".

This and the amount of quite obviously fishing gear one still sees floating around seems to indicate a great deal more 'education' is called for, tricky if someone has learned bad habits from a father or relative since first going to sea.

You are obviously in tune with your environment in every way, and I'd like to think and hope that will get you better results.

You are done a great disservice by the type we've seen here who say 'it's fine for us to leave what hazards we like, where we like, anyone who objects is a fairy / biased /doesn't understand our noble creed of badly maintained rust-buckets and polluting anywhere we go'...

Unfortunately, like a queue in a supermarkets, it's the idiot who pushes in and rams the ankles of the person in front then says they shouldn't have been there who gets noticed, not the 5 others with courtesy...
 
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Seajet said:
prv,

This and the amount of quite obviously fishing gear one still sees floating around seems to indicate a great deal more 'education' is called for, tricky if someone has learned bad habits from a father or relative since first going to sea.


I said 'most', remember, a lot of what you see is lost involuntarily, beam trawl netting is the worst, followed by ship's mooring warps. My boat has had the gearbox off the engine twice due to these.
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blueglass said:
If you have no reasoned argument, then your actions are seemingly deliberate, and as distastefully cynical as haydude suggests.
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It was me he accused of being cynical, and I am not a fisherman nor am I the person your remark above was addressed to. I will however present a reasoned argument as requested based on my own experience.

Creels round here are marked simply by a buoy (usually orange but not always) on the surface. Sometimes there is a smaller buoy with a floating line in between. Occasionally there is an unmarked floating line. We deal with this by using our eyes and by giving all creel markers a sensibly wide berth. There are no flags on any creel markers round here, and it is not a problem. We can see all the buoys by using our eyes and we avoid them by steering to avoid hitting them. I agreee that the use of 2 litre milk bottles and similar items as floats is not helpful, but I have sailed all round the coasts of Britain and Ireland and have only occasionally encountered this - I would estimate non-standard hard to spot markers are used alone on less than 1% of all pots.

Flags are expensive and make pots more difficult to deploy, and the cost of lighting them at night would soon put the industry out of business. Other gear floating loose is sometimes lost by accident (see fisherman's post above). Very little gear is recklessly deployed with a view to losing it to the first boat that goes past. You go to sea for pleasure but you seem to expect it to be sanitised and made 100% safe. Well, sorry to disappoint - the sea is a wild, dangerous and largely unregulated place, which for most of us is part of its charm. If it is too scary for you then sell your boat and take up golf, but please cease jeapordising the good relationship most of us enjoy with fishermen with your uninformed ranting.

- W
 
webcraft said:
You go to sea for pleasure but you seem to expect it to be sanitised and made 100% safe. Well, sorry to disappoint - the sea is a wild, dangerous and largely unregulated place, which for most of us is part of its charm. If it is too scary for you then sell your boat and take up golf, but please cease jeapordising the good relationship most of us enjoy with fishermen with your uninformed ranting.
- W
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I don't accept any of my observations to be ranting nor uninformed, but if this is your best shot, I will not rise further to any of your uninformed ranting.
 
webcraft said:
Creels round here are marked simply by a buoy (usually orange but not always) on the surface. Sometimes there is a smaller buoy with a floating line in between. Occasionally there is an unmarked floating line. We deal with this by using our eyes and by giving all creel markers a sensibly wide berth.
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Last time I sailed into Port Bannatyne - in September - there was a 200m long string of very small markers, joined by floating rope at right angles to the shore just off Ardbeg point. That is directly across the track used by most boats coming from the south on their way to the moorings or marina. I saw one of the markers well off, but despite looking very carefully I only spotted the line and one of the other markers (tennis ball sized) a couple of boat lengths away and just missed 'em with a crash tack.

If the markers are visible and sensibly placed then sure, dodging them is no big deal. Damn near invisible markers joined by damn near invisible line placed across busy routes are another matter.
 
SolentBoat said:
For as long as I've been sailing, I've read about the horrors of lobster pots and, of course, seen thousands of 'em over the years. So far always managed to avoid them.

But what actually happens when you get "caught"? Is it just a danger to the prop if you're under power? And what are those plastic can markers actually attached to - an easy to cut length of line or a steel hawser?

So, what happens and what do you do?
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I have avoided so many over the years, its just one of those things that I am always on the lookout for. However, near the Isle of Man I wrapped the rope round the prop and seized it up tight. Had to back out the prop from the inside to free the rope (in harbour). On another boat (not lobster pot related), a rope round the prop tore the engine off its mount and bent the shaft.

Off Muscat, Oman we picked up a long net slung offshore between small foam floats at night. That was managed by cutting free with a knife from the water. It was wrapped around twin rudders.

Off the Western Isles I grabbed with my boat hook what I thought was a big, pink mooring buoy dropped overboard from some unfortunate vessel. It was attached to something and I almost got launched over the stern. Lost the boat hook. Learn from my stupid actions.

Raising the anchor in Tobermory I brought up an old trot of lobster pots and just as it was noticed we wrapped trailing lines around the prop and rudder. This time judicious poking with a boat hook managed to unwrap the foul up.

So what happens can be anything from a judicious poke with a boat hook to an engine lying at a weird angle in your engine bay. One final story about ropes and propellors. As a lad I water skied a lot on Loch Lomond. My mate was skiing and I was leaning back against the console watching while someone else drove the boat. The boat suddenly deaccelerated sharply in deep water and I got flung over the windscreen. The cause was a thick rope round the prop.

The only users of the water that I have a beef with are those who travel fast through small harbours, anchorages or moorings, in whatever craft. However, I fail to see why fishermen can not mark lobster pots or nets in a standard, visible manner. I suspect its intransigence born out of tradition and I do not think for one minute that its because of any form of malice. The reasons for this intransigence could be no more than penny pinching, or fear of competitors. If the fishermen cant or wont change, then the matter should be ruled on and made mandatory.

Mandatory visible markers or not, the responsibility to avoid them still sits with me.
 
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webcraft said:
please cease jeapordising the good relationship most of us enjoy with fishermen
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This is a big deal for me. I'm planning to go down to Cornwall this summer, to places like Mevagissey or Mousehole where you need the cooperation of fishermen to fit into their harbour, to lie alongside a spare bit of unloading quay or perhaps a fishing boat that's not going anywhere for a few hours.

How's that going to play out when the second hit on Google (believe it or not, people in Cornwall use the Internet too) is Haydude saying "I encourage everyone to cut the lines" and "on a biological basis they can be classified as parasites" and Seajet calling them "uncaring nautical pikeys"?

Pete
 
prv said:
This is a big deal for me. I'm planning to go down to Cornwall this summer, to places like Mevagissey or Mousehole where you need the cooperation of fishermen to fit into their harbour, to lie alongside a spare bit of unloading quay or perhaps a fishing boat that's not going anywhere for a few hours.

How's that going to play out when the second hit on Google (believe it or not, people in Cornwall use the Internet too) is Haydude saying "I encourage everyone to cut the lines" and "on a biological basis they can be classified as parasites" and Seajet calling them "uncaring nautical pikeys"?

Pete
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I would like to see some of the staff of YBW stepping in to slap down a few of the bigger fools on here - not in a moderator capacity but in a sailing expert capacity. I imagine it must be painful for some of the magazine staff to read a lot of this nonsense.

All I can say to any fisherman reading this is that most of us are not like this and want to co-exist peacefully. Ignore the foolish spoutings of the uninformed and ignorant few.

- W
 
How about the informed and experienced then ?

I don't hesitate to call the louts who have openly said endangering lives does not matter ( but get very precious at the idea of their hazardous junk being cut free ) nautical pikeys.

Those who are better than that, take Fisherman for instance, will know it doesn't refer to them and with luck pressurise the idiots to be more thoughtful.
 
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