LOA for berthing: include bowsprit or not?

[LadyInBed]

I came across marinas in Spain that did L x B x a fiddle factor.
They had to take my word for the beam as it isn't recorded on the SSR.
As I mainly sail solo, I think that the number of people on board should also be taken into account

 

[OldBawley]

During my working days in a big Dutch marina I had a Belgian client who was sort of “Special”
He had done some sailing expeditions in a small engine less boat and was therefore made “Knight of the order of the Belgian crown”
We became good friends, and one day he was teaching me to moor with my boat along a pontoon, without engine,. Big fun.
On the way back to the marina he told me that one of the most important things in making a landfall and mooring was to be properly dressed for the occasion.
Just before arriving, he always shaved, put on a white shirt and combed his hair. He told me it was most important to meet the doctor, the customs, all of the officials on those remote islands. They ware always impressed by good clothes and manners.

I still do so. Before arriving in a small Greek town and mooring to the town quay I shave and put on a fresh white shirt. Just to honour Andre Ghilain. Do I have to mention his travels are long past ?

 

[sniffyjenkins]

During my working days in a big Dutch marina I had a Belgian client who was sort of “Special”
He had done some sailing expeditions in a small engine less boat and was therefore made “Knight of the order of the Belgian crown”
We became good friends, and one day he was teaching me to moor with my boat along a pontoon, without engine,. Big fun.
On the way back to the marina he told me that one of the most important things in making a landfall and mooring was to be properly dressed for the occasion.
Just before arriving, he always shaved, put on a white shirt and combed his hair. He told me it was most important to meet the doctor, the customs, all of the officials on those remote islands. They ware always impressed by good clothes and manners.

I still do so. Before arriving in a small Greek town and mooring to the town quay I shave and put on a fresh white shirt. Just to honour Andre Ghilain. Do I have to mention his travels are long past ?

Oh how wonderful! I've just looked him up. Sailing single-handed across the Atlantic without an engine or modern instruments? He must have had some tales to tell

 

[Yngmar]

In my berthing agreement the definition is clearly spelled out:

Boat Length: the overall length of the Boat calculated including davits, bowsprits, bumpkins, boarding ladders, stern drives, tenders, outdrives, outboards, rudders, anchors, pulpits, pushpits and any other extension fore and aft of the Boat;

Note clever avoidance of the term "LOA". Further:

We rely on You to provide us with an accurate measurement of the Boat Length and Your Berthing Fee is calculated by reference to the Boat Length. We therefore reserve the right at any time during the period of the Agreement to measure the Boat and charge You additional berthing fees if the Boat Length is greater than the length stated in the Berthing Licence, in accordance with the Price List. We will refund to You berthing fees if the Boat Length is less than the length stated in the Berthing Licence, in accordance with the Price List.

So make sure you notify them should you remove anything from the boat and your boat length gets shorter!

 

[Seajet]

The Sadler designed Frigate 27 ( very like a Sadler 25 ) is actually 26' LOA, presumably the extra was to sound more impressive; I bet people don't do that any more !

I have never actually seen anyone measure the length of a boat at a marina or anywhere else - if I saw someone out with a tape measure I'd mutter a few naughty words - though I suppose at marinas it's pretty clear how well a boat fits a known berth.

 

[johnalison]

My last three boats have each been 6" shorter than their model names, whereas some makes such as Bavaria tend to be oversize. It just shows hat life isn't fair.

 

[Woodlouse]

I've been to a few places on the continent where the marinas charge by the size of the berth, not the size of the boat in it. I had to turn down the very appealing option of paying for an 80 foot berth for a 38 foot boat once in Cascais.

 

[Poignard]

I came across marinas in Spain that did L x B x a fiddle factor.
They had to take my word for the beam as it isn't recorded on the SSR.
As I mainly sail solo, I think that the number of people on board should also be taken into account

Yes-the marina is saving on water, bog paper and rubbish disposal. :encouragement:

 

[Seajet]

I've been to a few places on the continent where the marinas charge by the size of the berth, not the size of the boat in it. I had to turn down the very appealing option of paying for an 80 foot berth for a 38 foot boat once in Cascais.

That scheme would be a bit rough on one if the only boat at Poole town quay !

 

[Rivers & creeks]

I've never offered to pay for our bowsprit or davit lengths and no one has ever asked me to do so. Those rich enough to suggest to marinas that they be charged for their bowsprit are doing a grand job in bolstering marinas profits and making them less likely to charge me extra; carry on as you are sir.

 

[westernman]

In France you are charged by the overall dimemsions and the marinas normally have a littel book that gives then the standard measurements. They wanted to move me up a category but I had changed the pulpit which brought me down a category.

In France, I have never paid for the bow sprit. Only the length of the hull.
In Spain, as a visitor, I have also never paid for the bow sprit.

However, now moving to Spain on an annual berth and they would not let me rent a 16m berth (my boat is 15.6m without the bow sprit), on the grounds that it would obstruct the channel between the pontoons. Dead right they are too.

So, for the first time I am paying for 20m (I am 20.03m from tip of the bow sprit to the back end of the stern). Which makes it twice the price of my 16m berth in France.

 

[Plum]

When visiting some charge, some don't and some don't check but for annual contracts the marinas i have used charge and even go round with a tape measure and yes, my boat is just out of shot because i did not have a wide angle lense.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Birdseye]

Hi all

When we're staying at marinas and we pay we always include the 4' bowsprit in the stated LOA. I thought that was a thing that folks did. We recently stayed a night on a visitor's buoy in Salcombe Harbour. Lovely it was too. The harbour master boat came round in the afternoon to collect payment, very friendly. He asked the LOA of our boat and I immediately said 35 feet. He then added "without the bowsprit?". Oh. 31 feet then. He charged us for 31 feet.

Lovely!

I was under the impression, however, that the LOA of a boat included all its protuberances and appendages, no?

Anyway, they asked for 31' of my money after correcting me down 4', so I was pretty delighted with this.

Happy days.

You obviously are a nice honest person. For long term moorings at your home marina its up to the marina to define the length and likely they will measure it. For casual visits I always start off a metre less than the boat actually measures. Only difficulty is remembering what I told them the previous year.

Sailed down the French atlantic coast in company with a guy sailing a boat called Puffin. It was 11m if memory serves. By the time we got to Royanne he was declaring 8m and the boat was nicknamed rubber puffin. He was far from alone in this approach to rip off marina fees.

 

[westernman]

When visiting some charge, some don't and some don't check but for annual contracts the marinas i have used charge and even go round with a tape measure View attachment 57325 and yes, my boat is just out of shot because i did not have a wide angle lense.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

They did come round with a tape measure once. I thought I was going to be in trouble! However, they measure the boat, 20.03m and went away. A few weeks later I was asked if I would mind moving three berths up. Apparently a guy a few berths down had complained that the bow sprit made it sometimes tricky when exiting his berth. He had a 65 foot long keeler and would back out until almost touching the other side of the fairway, then full power, full rudder and would just miss my bow sprit by a couple of feet. They never asked me to pay more than for the 16m I was paying for.

 

[Woodlouse]

In France, I have never paid for the bow sprit. Only the length of the hull.
In Spain, as a visitor, I have also never paid for the bow sprit.

However, now moving to Spain on an annual berth and they would not let me rent a 16m berth (my boat is 15.6m without the bow sprit), on the grounds that it would obstruct the channel between the pontoons. Dead right they are too.

So, for the first time I am paying for 20m (I am 20.03m from tip of the bow sprit to the back end of the stern). Which makes it twice the price of my 16m berth in France.

Can you not just run the bowsprit in? I know it can be a bit of a chore on some set ups but surely must be worth it to half mooring costs.

 

[Resolution]

Am I alone in feeling ashamed that so many respondents to this thread are happily disclosing their dishonesty in declaring false measurements? To knowingly understate LOA when you know that is the basis on which the berth charge will be calculated is simply cheating the marina. Or fraud.

 

[westernman]

Can you not just run the bowsprit in? I know it can be a bit of a chore on some set ups but surely must be worth it to half mooring costs.

It is a real chore. I decided to swallow the additional cost (about 1/4 more) for the convenience.
The big difference in price comes from the fact that Spain is just much more expensive than France (Costa Brava vs Languedoc Roussillon).

 

[Birdseye]

Am I alone in feeling ashamed that so many respondents to this thread are happily disclosing their dishonesty in declaring false measurements? To knowingly understate LOA when you know that is the basis on which the berth charge will be calculated is simply cheating the marina. Or fraud.

Probably not but definitely a bit odd, feeling ashamed of what other people do. You must be permanently ashamed mind you, every time you see someone speeding or dropping litter or overstaying their parking time not to mention chatting to the publican with last years tax in gold round his neck.

You got the wrong word. Replace "ashamed" with "pious" and you have what you meant to say.

 

[john_morris_uk]

You obviously are a nice honest person. For long term moorings at your home marina its up to the marina to define the length and likely they will measure it. For casual visits I always start off a metre less than the boat actually measures. Only difficulty is remembering what I told them the previous year.

Sailed down the French atlantic coast in company with a guy sailing a boat called Puffin. It was 11m if memory serves. By the time we got to Royanne he was declaring 8m and the boat was nicknamed rubber puffin. He was far from alone in this approach to rip off marina fees.

I am always bemused by the way that the owners of super yachts play exactly the same games.

(We are talking about the super rich and boats that cost more than £1M per metre to buy, let alone provide crew and fuel etc for.)

Many of them make it a point of pride to get the skipper to declare a shorter length than the true size of their boat. I was discussing it with a skipper a little while ago and he said although they can easily afford the fees, its a little battle they like to feel they've won.

The human psyche huh?

 

[Rivers & creeks]

That's a different game; we're talking bowsprits here and they cheer everyone up just looking at them, frankly I should get a discount for having one. No marina has ever asked me to pay extra for having one.