dinwood
Well-Known Member
We read plenty about Lithium battery technology maturing for use in cars - does anyone know of it being used/available for boats? I know it is expensive now, but how do the economics work out?
Lithium domestic batteries?
- Thread starter dinwood
- Start date
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
Still horrific apparently. And at least one of the electric cars simply uses a whole lot of computer batteries strapped together though they dont make it public.
Trundlebug
Well-Known Member
I don't know about the cost of equivalent Lithium 12v domestic batteries, but I can see it being much higher for marine applications anyway, because of the additional encapsulation required. Or at least that'll be the marine suppliers' excuse!
Lithium + water = OOPS !!
I agree they would be far better in every other respect: lighter, more charge, faster charging, longer life, less maintenance..
As I understand it, the price of lithium is already rocketing because of demand, and it's not a very plentiful substance. So even though the production costs may be falling through improved economies of scale, it's being offset by the raw material costs. It'll be interesting to see how things develop
Lithium + water = OOPS !!
I agree they would be far better in every other respect: lighter, more charge, faster charging, longer life, less maintenance..
As I understand it, the price of lithium is already rocketing because of demand, and it's not a very plentiful substance. So even though the production costs may be falling through improved economies of scale, it's being offset by the raw material costs. It'll be interesting to see how things develop
Searush
Well-Known Member
Yeah, so instead of using up our fossil fuel reserves, we anihilate our Lithium resource. DOH!
radarman
Active Member
One aspect that doesn't really get mentioned in these discussions is what happens if you damage the Lithium cell. Without going into the technical details, what can happen is that you end up with a runaway thermal excursion (fire) with jets of flames that can reach temperatures of +700deg C and will burn for a significant period of time!! Now Lithium batteries do have lots and lots of protection mechanisms to try and prevent this event from happening however they cannot prevent the effects of physical damage. So unless your battery system has some very special packaging to ensure that the cells are not damaged then do not even consider them irrespective of price.
neale
Well-Known Member
Yes, Mastervolt do them:
http://www.mastervolt.com/view_prod...=Marine&prggr_id=1019&prg_id=1187&pro_id=6103
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Of Course Lithium Power Is Available!
Rubbish - if its good enough for Scoty aka "she canny take it capin" its good enough for us.
Constitution-class starships continued to use crystallized lithium until the mid 2260s, before switching to dilithium.
It was used in the warp drive systems of many starships. Dilithium regulated the matter/antimatter reaction in a ship's warp core because of its ability to be rendered porous to light-element antimatter when exposed to high temperatures and pressures. It controls the amount of power generated in the reaction chamber, channeling the energy released by mutual annihilation into a stream of electro-plasma.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dilithium
It was only a matter of time until digression was assured
Rubbish - if its good enough for Scoty aka "she canny take it capin" its good enough for us.
Constitution-class starships continued to use crystallized lithium until the mid 2260s, before switching to dilithium.
It was used in the warp drive systems of many starships. Dilithium regulated the matter/antimatter reaction in a ship's warp core because of its ability to be rendered porous to light-element antimatter when exposed to high temperatures and pressures. It controls the amount of power generated in the reaction chamber, channeling the energy released by mutual annihilation into a stream of electro-plasma.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Dilithium
It was only a matter of time until digression was assured
Trundlebug
Well-Known Member
Quality!
pappaecho
Well-Known Member
Didnt mention price though did they?
noelex
Well-Known Member
There are a number of different Lithium batterys. LiFeP04 is the chemistry promoted for boat batteries. This chemistry is significantly safer than Lithium ion batteries used in mobile phones and often carried in pants pockets next to some rather important bits of anatomy.
The manufacturers claim LiFeP04 is as safe or safer than lead acid battery design. I have no way of verifying these claims, but I don't think safety is a big drawback of this type of battery.
Avocet
Well-Known Member
I've been peripherally involved with LiFeP04 cells in electric vehicles recently. They don't suffer from the "thermal runaway" problems that other Li-ion chemistries do. This is from the datasheet:
"Phosphate based technology possesses superior thermal and chemical stability which provides better safety characteristics than those of other Lithium-ion technologies. Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible in the event of mishandling during charge or discharge, they are more stable under overcharge or short circuit conditions and they can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. When abuse does occur, the phosphate-based cathode material will not release oxygen, will not combust and is therefore much less susceptible to thermal runaway. Lithium iron phosphate cells also offer a longer cycle life (1000 - 2500 cycles).
Lithium iron phosphate batteries have lower energy density than cobalt, but they can support higher currents and thus greater power. They are a significant improvement over lithium cobalt oxide cells in terms of the cost, safety and toxicity."
If it weren't for the (eyewatering!) price, I'd not have a problem using them on a boat! They also have the advantage that you don't need different types of battery for cranking and domestic use as they can supply whacking great currents as well as very small currents.
"Phosphate based technology possesses superior thermal and chemical stability which provides better safety characteristics than those of other Lithium-ion technologies. Lithium phosphate cells are incombustible in the event of mishandling during charge or discharge, they are more stable under overcharge or short circuit conditions and they can withstand high temperatures without decomposing. When abuse does occur, the phosphate-based cathode material will not release oxygen, will not combust and is therefore much less susceptible to thermal runaway. Lithium iron phosphate cells also offer a longer cycle life (1000 - 2500 cycles).
Lithium iron phosphate batteries have lower energy density than cobalt, but they can support higher currents and thus greater power. They are a significant improvement over lithium cobalt oxide cells in terms of the cost, safety and toxicity."
If it weren't for the (eyewatering!) price, I'd not have a problem using them on a boat! They also have the advantage that you don't need different types of battery for cranking and domestic use as they can supply whacking great currents as well as very small currents.
alan_d
Well-Known Member
Now there's an idea, using digression as a power-source. A bit like Douglas Adams' improbability drive, I suppose.
radarman
Active Member
Thanks for the update. It just shows how technology moves on. I shall have to investigate these batteries for our application which is somewhat more severe than a boat environment but could be the answer to a number of problems.
KenMcCulloch
Well-Known Member
Engineering to bridge: Captain, the digression flux containment is aboot tae brek doon! A've goat a team o' philosophers workin' on it right noo but it'll be at least hauf an oor tae fix it. She canna take much more of this Captain.
Vara
Well-Known Member
At $8000 dollars a pop, I think the caravan shop will continue to get my trade!
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
'I canna do that to ma lithiums, Cap't'
re Ken McCulloch
If Scotty is posting here on Practical Bodgit and OwnUpToIt, surely he need no'but a very sticky roll of duct-tape and a large screwdriver to keep the starship's batteries purring well into the next millenium cycle ?
re Ken McCulloch
If Scotty is posting here on Practical Bodgit and OwnUpToIt, surely he need no'but a very sticky roll of duct-tape and a large screwdriver to keep the starship's batteries purring well into the next millenium cycle ?
srm
Well-Known Member
Don't know about boats, but 26v 10.5Ah Lithium Polymer battery for my hybrid bike is around £250. A light compact battery but eyewateringly expensive if you want 300Ah or more for a domestic bank.
