Talulah
Well-known member
Well the Jury is out. Literally. They've been considering their verdict most of the day.
Presumably a verdict tomorrow.
Presumably a verdict tomorrow.
Liquid Vortex trial starts
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
rhinorhino
New member
And of course, immediately electronically zap the jury to wipe their memories of what was just said.
The Prosecution know that once mentioned, the mud will stick, regardless of what the Judge says. That is precisely why they break the rules. They can't do it too often or they will be charged with contempt I suspect, or have some other professional sanction applied. But they will do it just enough to swing a jury when it makes the diferrence between winning & losing a case.
Searush, I am a criminal barrister and i can say without a shadow of a doubt that you have no idea whatsoever what you are talking about.
toad_oftoadhall
New member
rhinorhino, are you able to tell us how to find out exactly what the charges are/were and, when the trial's over, how can we get hold of a transcript of witness statements.
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Searush
New member
Fine, I would appreciate the benefit of your experience then - unless you only speak when paid?
Saying that I know nothing is pointless if you don't correct me.
Beadle
New member
"The Prosecution know that once mentioned, the mud will stick, regardless of what the Judge says. That is precisely why they break the rules."
And it is precisely why the judge is able to stop the trial, discharge the jury and start all over again with a new jury.
Which in turn is why barristers don't resort to such tactics.
As for the sea-going or not barrister - its worth remembering they can capably defend murderers, rapists, burglars etc etc without experience of any f these pastimes, I doubt they would have difficulty with a sailing trip gone wrong.
BTB
I'm still not clear what prescisely it is they are charged with.
And it is precisely why the judge is able to stop the trial, discharge the jury and start all over again with a new jury.
Which in turn is why barristers don't resort to such tactics.
As for the sea-going or not barrister - its worth remembering they can capably defend murderers, rapists, burglars etc etc without experience of any f these pastimes, I doubt they would have difficulty with a sailing trip gone wrong.
BTB
I'm still not clear what prescisely it is they are charged with.
Pye_End
Well-known member
There is a bit more information from the trial here:
http://www.kenyacentral.com/world/5...-warnings-and-sailed-into-force-10-storm.html
http://www.kenyacentral.com/world/5...-warnings-and-sailed-into-force-10-storm.html
Tidewaiter2
New member
Now, Now Searush! This is his Chambers Pro Bono Publico for the week
Fine, I would appreciate the benefit of your experience then - unless you only speak when paid?
.. you cannot expect his Clerk to let him spend too much time on replying- it will mean said Clerk will not be able to change his 70' Princess and 2 month old Spyder when the ashtrays are full, meanwhile the Brief gets on the bus to his next case- in Torquay
Searush
New member
Thanks, much appreciated. I probably watched too much Perry Mason when I lived at home with my parents in the 60's
npf1
Active member
toad_oftoadhall
New member
Well it's hard to say if I agree or not without knowing exactly what the charges were, but on the face of it I think nobody getting convicted is good news. So I won't be popping the cork on a bottle of Moet tonight but I'll probably have a swift pint of Directors to the health of CS and JM.
No doubt the hanging judges on YBW will now accuse the entire British Justice System of trolling!!!
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Nico
Member
LOL at "novices"
Pye_End
Well-known member
Just for clarity, except one of the charges - 'But they failed to reach a verdict on a charge of whether he failed to properly assess the risk of the voyage '
mainsail1
Well-known member
I am so pleased.
It would have changed the face of yachting for ever if they now had criminal convictions to their names. The trial has done enormous damage to the trust between sailors and the rescue services. It may make some sailors think twice before calling the Coastguard or RNLI for help. Very sad and the last thing we wanted to happen.
It would have changed the face of yachting for ever if they now had criminal convictions to their names. The trial has done enormous damage to the trust between sailors and the rescue services. It may make some sailors think twice before calling the Coastguard or RNLI for help. Very sad and the last thing we wanted to happen.
toad_oftoadhall
New member
Fair point, edited my post accordingly.
jimi
Well-known member
Well it's hard to say if I agree or not without knowing exactly what the charges were, but on the face of it I think a 'not guilty' is good news. So I won't be popping the cork on a bottle of Moet tonight but I'll probably have a swift pint of Directors to the health of CS and JM.
No doubt the hanging judges on YBW will now accuse the entire British Justice System of trolling!!!
I'm not so sure that it is unmitigated good news. indubitably it is good news for JM & CS but the fact that convictions have failed under existing law may lead to more rigorous legislation being called for. The hoorays may be a little premature.
jordanbasset
Well-known member
No doubt the hanging judges on YBW will now accuse the entire British Justice System of trolling!!!
Not a hanging judge but can I accuse the whole British Justice system of trolling
dt4134
New member
Very good point.
toad_oftoadhall
New member
You could use that argument to argue against the verdict in any trial where the accused isn't guilty!
Anyway more rigorous than S58 of the MSA? How could it be more rigorous? It's already illegal to do something likely to damage your own vessel or people on board. [1] How would you tighten that up? Make it illegal to do something that wasn't very likely to damage to your own vessel or people on board?
If by "more rigorous" you mean "clearer" then that's a good thing AFAIC. Not that I can think how that could be achieved.
AFAIC this is a good result, on the face of it people are allowed to go out sailing in storms if they wish. If someone compels or tricks other people to sail in storms then that is already illegal.
[1] Think of the implications of that - is Club Racing Illegal? Is the RTIR illegal? Is the Vende Globe in a UK flagged boat illegal?
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Boatmaster1
New member
Great day for commonsence
I dont believe that any damage has been done to the relationship between sailors and the rescue services. All of us who drive/sail boats for a living know just what a good job these guys do and have had to call upon them/work alongside at times and know what a brilliant job they do. Didnt this just be shown on this occasion?
People who pay to go on boats dont hand over the full responsibilty to the skipper,they have to be responsible for themselves and shipmates as well. Part of a crew and all that.
When people who want to learn to sail will do so knowing its not a game but real-life then maybe the skills they are being taught will enable them to sail safely and not just weekend warriors who spend 80% of their time sitting in pubs telling each other stories of the 10 miles they have sailed on a beautiful summers day and how hard the mackerel fought off the Brambles?
I too will be raising a glass or 3 to HL,JM & CS.
I dont believe that any damage has been done to the relationship between sailors and the rescue services. All of us who drive/sail boats for a living know just what a good job these guys do and have had to call upon them/work alongside at times and know what a brilliant job they do. Didnt this just be shown on this occasion?
People who pay to go on boats dont hand over the full responsibilty to the skipper,they have to be responsible for themselves and shipmates as well. Part of a crew and all that.
When people who want to learn to sail will do so knowing its not a game but real-life then maybe the skills they are being taught will enable them to sail safely and not just weekend warriors who spend 80% of their time sitting in pubs telling each other stories of the 10 miles they have sailed on a beautiful summers day and how hard the mackerel fought off the Brambles?
I too will be raising a glass or 3 to HL,JM & CS.
maxi77
Active member
Personally I tend to disagree, this was not liesure sailors but a coomercial operation and rather than allowing sailors to contact the Coastguard, it suggests that the duty of care commercial operations are supposed to have for their customers cannot be enforced by the law, now is that a good thing.