Liquid Vortex trial starts

awol said:
I see an unfortunate parallel between the skippers of Liquid Vortex and the FP (Film Prop) Bounty. Both managed to advertise an attitude to weather that made them look like complete tits - LV's with tweets, Bounty's with that interview. The RNLI account indicates the loss of LV was much closer than the YM puff piece indicated.

Roll on the trial result and the MAIB report and recommendations ........
Click to expand...

There will not be an MAIB report they did not investigate the incident, the injury to the guy on the helm was only bruising and the only damage to the boat where the life boat hit them so no investigation was triggered. Look up the MAIB terms of reference.
 
Old Dog said:
There will not be an MAIB report they did not investigate the incident, the injury to the guy on the helm was only bruising and the only damage to the boat where the life boat hit them so no investigation was triggered. Look up the MAIB terms of reference.
Click to expand...

Was there not some damage that wasn't caused by a collision with a lifeboat?
I don't think a lifeboat blew out the headsail, bent the wheel or collided with the deck cleats.
I'm probably wrong, though. I wasn't there.
 
Old Dog said:
Skipper was only suspended fr 3 months and has been working all summer for 3 of the major schools in the Solent so some people still trust him!?
Click to expand...
I understood that he had to be re-assessed to get his ticket back, if he has been working for sailing schools I assume he was successful in his assessment. I don't think I mentioned losing trust?

He took a decision on the day that many consider a risky one, we all take decisions every time we cast off and go to sea, but in today's world where your tweet and YouTube footage everything you do is in the public domain. I hope we can all learn lessons from this incident, hence my comment about sailing schools following the case with interest.
 
A1Sailor said:
Was there not some damage that wasn't caused by a collision with a lifeboat?
I don't think a lifeboat blew out the headsail, bent the wheel or collided with the deck cleats.
I'm probably wrong, though. I wasn't there.
Click to expand...

Dont think the tow pulling the cleat of counts as that happened after or them cutting the sail away as no damage, as to the wheel you would have to ask MAIB. Fact is no investigation so no report!
 
Story I heard, second hand so will not claim 100% accuracy was that he was asked to pland 600NM passage to Scotland on just synoptics!!
 
Old Dog said:
Dont think the tow pulling the cleat of counts as that happened after or them cutting the sail away as no damage, as to the wheel you would have to ask MAIB. Fact is no investigation so no report!
Click to expand...

Fact, or your assumption? Do you work for MAIB? Who did the investigation that led to the prosecution? With respect, you seem very assertive and sure of yourself, while some of what you say appears to contradict much of what has been reported here, including the RNLI press release. There have been too many speculators on this forum in my view. Why not wait for the outcome of the trial?
 
Old Dog said:
Story I heard, second hand so will not claim 100% accuracy was that he was asked to pland 600NM passage to Scotland on just synoptics!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your point is about that? I recently planned and executed a 500NM voyage from Scotland using synoptic at the start and little else .. I canned 2 weekends cos the forecast was rubbish (F8 forecasts not F10) and went successfully the third!
 
I did my Coastal Skipper course on the Solent with force 8 & occasional 9 inside the Island.

I'm not clear what they have done to be prosecuted for.

I don't understand how they can be charged with not notifying the coastguard. If everyone who sailed on the Solent notified them they would need more coastguards.

Hundreds of people are rescued every year by the RNLI - how many others have been prosecuted? I've never heard of any. If the government makes it an offense to need a rescue then I think they are going to kill a lot of people.
 
Woodlouse said:
People keep mentioning the weak crew, yet there were several day skippers on board, plus others with yacht masters. I wonder just how they described their experience and ability to the company before signing up for the trip and before setting off. One thing is for sure, the skipper would not have withheld the forecast from the crew. In fact from my experience with sailing schools it would have been one of the crew that recorded it. I suspect that any weakness in the crew only became really apparent after the chap was injured and the steering failed. Seasickness amongst school crews is almost to be expected and if you made a point of returning to port every time it happened you'd soon find yourself not getting very far.
Click to expand...

OK as one or two may know or have sussed out I know some people that know Skipper and have met him. People should be aware that a number of very highly qualified and respected people have supported him as this was totaly out of character. I have heard a number of things about this and while we all agree that as a min going beyond Eastbourne was not a good idea some other speculation has been complete *******s, so here goes

I think it has now been said in court so I will start about the crew 2 x DS and 4 x CC. But qualification, ability and experiance re not always one and same.

Think you may find one DS owned own 49' in Brighton and had sailed it back from Med several years before, done channel Crossings with it and had been sailing for 20/30 years with several times the miles required for YM! Second DS had more than just the min 10 days and 200NM (not sure how much), apparently had done lots in Solent with friends before doing DS and was discribed as very strong sailor. One CC (skippers daughter) had 1500NM including same trip year before and X Channel (RORC), have been told she is now in Med working as delivery crew, another CC had over 1000NM including X Channel trips and "Heavy Weather" experiance, 3rd CC had Race experiance including helming a boat in 2011 RTIR (we all now how rough that was), leaving just one bog standard CC.

So where does all that fit with reporting of Novice crew?? It might not be a strong Offshore Race crew but for a down wind run in 5 - 7 maybe even some 8 at end? That is what has been said in court about intent/passage plan.
 
Grumpybear said:
Fact, or your assumption? Do you work for MAIB? Who did the investigation that led to the prosecution? With respect, you seem very assertive and sure of yourself, while some of what you say appears to contradict much of what has been reported here, including the RNLI press release. There have been too many speculators on this forum in my view. Why not wait for the outcome of the trial?
Click to expand...

MAIB list all the investigations for which they are going to do a report on their website. It isn't there. Otherwise I think they do try to log basic details of incidents for statistical purposes. They certainly trot some out in their reports, but the accuracy some of their yachting statistics has been heavily criticised in the past.

The MCA have an enforcement unit for prosecutions that is not linked to MAIB. There was an incident with a Spanish owned UK registered trawler where MAIB cancelled their investigation and simply stated that it had been passed to the MCA Enforcement Unit, but I've seen no indication that they were ever involved in investigating this HL incident. I presume the previous report was considered as a bit of a shot across the bows.
 
jimi said:
I'm not sure what your point is about that? I recently planned and executed a 500NM voyage from Scotland using synoptic at the start and little else .. I canned 2 weekends cos the forecast was rubbish (F8 forecasts not F10) and went successfully the third!
Click to expand...

No point I was just commenting that I had heard that was what RYA made him (Skipper) do to get suspension lifted.
 
Old Dog said:
OK as one or two may know or have sussed out I know some people that know Skipper and have met him. People should be aware that a number of very highly qualified and respected people have supported him as this was totaly out of character. I have heard a number of things about this and while we all agree that as a min going beyond Eastbourne was not a good idea some other speculation has been complete *******s, so here goes

I think it has now been said in court so I will start about the crew 2 x DS and 4 x CC. But qualification, ability and experiance re not always one and same.

Think you may find one DS owned own 49' in Brighton and had sailed it back from Med several years before, done channel Crossings with it and had been sailing for 20/30 years with several times the miles required for YM! Second DS had more than just the min 10 days and 200NM (not sure how much), apparently had done lots in Solent with friends before doing DS and was discribed as very strong sailor. One CC (skippers daughter) had 1500NM including same trip year before and X Channel (RORC), have been told she is now in Med working as delivery crew, another CC had over 1000NM including X Channel trips and "Heavy Weather" experiance, 3rd CC had Race experiance including helming a boat in 2011 RTIR (we all now how rough that was), leaving just one bog standard CC.

So where does all that fit with reporting of Novice crew?? It might not be a strong Offshore Race crew but for a down wind run in 5 - 7 maybe even some 8 at end? That is what has been said in court about intent/passage plan.
Click to expand...

Hmm ... how does that fit with the RNLI report?

here's a short extract:
"Judith Richardson, volunteer press officer for Dungeness RNLI, said: 'It was pretty horrendous out there by all accounts. Our crew got up alongside 'Liquid Vortex' and our duty coxswain, Mark Richardson, made three attempts to transfer a lifeboat crew member across to them. Their aim was to attach a tow line, but the conditions were just too rough and dangerous to make the transfer. It was blowing Storm Force 11 at the time, so one can only imagine how frightened those onboard the training vessel were.'

'The crew reported that, of seven people aboard 'Liquid Vortex', only one was in a fit state to assist with the transfer – the remainder were injured or suffering severe seasickness."
 
dt4134 said:
MAIB list all the investigations for which they are going to do a report on their website. It isn't there. Otherwise I think they do try to log basic details of incidents for statistical purposes. They certainly trot some out in their reports, but the accuracy some of their yachting statistics has been heavily criticised in the past.

The MCA have an enforcement unit for prosecutions that is not linked to MAIB. There was an incident with a Spanish owned UK registered trawler where MAIB cancelled their investigation and simply stated that it had been passed to the MCA Enforcement Unit, but I've seen no indication that they were ever involved in investigating this HL incident. I presume the previous report was considered as a bit of a shot across the bows.
Click to expand...

Do not work for MAIB but do work in industry YMO/YMI. MCA are one prosecuting so MCA Enforcement investigated and from what has been said about why some charges thrown out made a hash of it! Did not actualy inspect boat or check systems!!!
 
jimi said:
Hmm ... how does that fit with the RNLI report?

here's a short extract:
"Judith Richardson, volunteer press officer for Dungeness RNLI, said: 'It was pretty horrendous out there by all accounts. Our crew got up alongside 'Liquid Vortex' and our duty coxswain, Mark Richardson, made three attempts to transfer a lifeboat crew member across to them. Their aim was to attach a tow line, but the conditions were just too rough and dangerous to make the transfer. It was blowing Storm Force 11 at the time, so one can only imagine how frightened those onboard the training vessel were.'

'The crew reported that, of seven people aboard 'Liquid Vortex', only one was in a fit state to assist with the transfer – the remainder were injured or suffering severe seasickness."
Click to expand...

You may find court have been told some different "facts", not sure of all details but I understand there was a full watch of 3 on deck when wave hit and two were helping Skipper with rigging for tow after helmsman taken below. First and Second two rigged by crew!
 
Old Dog said:
OK as one or two may know or have sussed out I know some people that know Skipper and have met him.
Click to expand...
Ah, the rule of six. I know somebody who knows the skipper.

I know somebody, who knows somebody who knows Billy Connolly (and I went to school with three Members of Parliament).

I am not sure if your postings have any more credibility that any other of our esteemed posters on the forum?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top