Liquid Vortex trial starts
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Which is where I find your attitude incomprehensible. You want to lock people up for going out in a F10 which is far safer than almost any Motorsport you can name.
mikefleetwood
Well-Known Member
That, of course, is the problem with the written word - it comes completely without those cues as to the writers intention that would be present in spoken conversation - especially face-to-face!
That's why internet "emoticons" were invented
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
I'd agree, I don't think what people say on Twitter should be taken as literal truth.
None the less, as of today we know they did sail past Eastbourne with a forecast of F8-F10. So whatever they thought the previous day, once they passed Eastbourne you'd have to say they were intending to be out in an F8-F10 due to build rather than drop, unless they had some weather knowledge that can be considered better than the Met Office, but was wrong on the day!
Whether sailing in strong winds should be a criminal act is a different issue. Personally I think people should be allowed to do what the hell they like. Sailing in a storm is a lot safer than climbing Everest or smoking or the IOM TT so good luck to 'em.
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PhillM
Well-Known Member
But the crux of the matter is that the school and skipper were taking inexperenced PAYING people who put their TRUST in them.
Blue5
Well-Known Member
You're p*****g in the wind trying to explain that to him........
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
The crew weren't "taken". They were offered a sail, any one of them could have taken the train to EastbourneDover/Ramsgate instead. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the possiblity of some heavy weather sailing was a big part of the reason a) they booked a winter trip and b) they still decided to go after they'd seen the forecast.
Can you quantify the paying crew's inexperience, I've seen little about the amount of sailing they'd done I'd be interested to know.
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A1Sailor
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+1.
I would be interested to know what the Skipper told the passengers (sorry - crew) before they set sail. They were briefed, and I think did a MOB drill. Was the possibility of Force 10/11 in the dark mentioned?
jimi
Well-Known Member
You really do need to learn about elementary risk analysis. You'll have to produce statistics relating to small craft survival in F10 in shallow coastal waters for your analysis to be be relevant to this situation.
my guess is that you'll find that sailors who constantly sail in f10 in coastal waters would have a higher attrition rate than Everest climbers or smokers.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
toad_oftoadhall;3825536 Can you quantify the paying crew's inexperience said:
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Having done both, I'd go motor racing rather than sailing on a force 10 day.
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
That, of course, is the problem with the written word - it comes completely without those cues as to the writers intention that would be present in spoken conversation - especially face-to-face!
That's why internet "emoticons" were invented
I reads as sarcasm to me too. "Oh great, we're going to be in storm conditions using every resource we have to deal with them.', might be a literal interpretation. He had that in mind and went anyway. Being caught out in it is one thing. Consciously setting out into it in boat of borderline suitability with an untested and relatively novice crew is an entirely different matter. Lunacy. A genuine F10 is likely to be a fairly unpleasant affair on a small sailing boat not intended for use in extreme conditions.
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toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
So it's ok for you to go in a F10 but if anyone else does it should be criminalized.
Simondjuk
Well-Known Member
Did I not mention a difference between being caught out in it and wilfully putting out into it? Oh yes, so I did. You must have missed it.
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
You didn't say your sailing in F10s was accidental. So, anyway, you think planning to go out a ten should be a criminal offence wheras accidently sailing in a F10 should be legal. You won't be surprised to hear I don't agree.
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
You didn't say your sailing in F10s was accidental. So, anyway, you think planning to go out a ten should be a criminal offence wheras accidently sailing in a F10 should be legal. You won't be surprised to hear I don't agree.
I don't think putting to sea with a private boat in a F10 should be a criminal offence at all.
I do think putting to sea in a F10 with a paying crew (of any sort) is daft.
How often have you done either, can I ask?
flawed_logic
Well-Known Member
HL are (were) a commercial company that offer a chargeable service to customers.
Safety is a "right" to customers of any company even in the context of a "risky" sport such as track days and other commercially driven experience packages.
They have been found to be potentially negligent.
We are talking about real people who thought they were going to die
There was a history of other negligent issues.
The forecast was bad, in no way can it seen as being anything else
You do not operate a commercial company like that
Safety is a "right" to customers of any company even in the context of a "risky" sport such as track days and other commercially driven experience packages.
They have been found to be potentially negligent.
We are talking about real people who thought they were going to die
There was a history of other negligent issues.
The forecast was bad, in no way can it seen as being anything else
You do not operate a commercial company like that
Blue5
Well-Known Member
Please don't feed the troll.............
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
Exactly.