Linssen Boats - good or bad?

[Dino]

If it’s the black/navy hulled 425 in Denmark then that is sold. My friend bought one in Denmark last October but it’s still showing up on some websites.
It’s now in its new home on Lough Ree on the River Shannon

 

[SimonX]

If it’s the black/navy hulled 425 in Denmark then that is sold. My friend bought one in Denmark last October but it’s still showing up on some websites.
It’s now in its new home on Lough Ree on the River Shannon

Yes, that’s it. Website now updated. Broker hadn’t responded to email.

 

[Alicatt]

In reference to the dining etc., the Ocean 37 has a small galley just below the cockpit and to the rear of the saloon, it was that layout that my wife liked rather than the slightly bigger galley on the Continental, we usually eat a light lunch/tapas on the cockpit but for dinner we always use the dining table in the saloon.
It is easy to pass up food and drink from the galley to the cockpit and eat on the move so to speak.
A drink in the evening sitting in the cockpit is nice, though after last summer we are looking into fitting a larger awning to the cockpit tent, I bought a light tarpaulin and a couple of poles and strung up an extra bit of shade due to the hot weather, and it certainly helped deflect the direct sun of the saloon roof and kept the cabin cooler.

 

[SimonX]

In reference to the dining etc., the Ocean 37 has a small galley just below the cockpit and to the rear of the saloon, it was that layout that my wife liked rather than the slightly bigger galley on the Continental, we usually eat a light lunch/tapas on the cockpit but for dinner we always use the dining table in the saloon.
It is easy to pass up food and drink from the galley to the cockpit and eat on the move so to speak.
A drink in the evening sitting in the cockpit is nice, though after last summer we are looking into fitting a larger awning to the cockpit tent, I bought a light tarpaulin and a couple of poles and strung up an extra bit of shade due to the hot weather, and it certainly helped deflect the direct sun of the saloon roof and kept the cabin cooler.

I think she's leaning to the idea of the bigger galley outweighing the dining area.
When you bought your boat, were you near enough to sea to take it out and run at full power during trial? Its one thing that concerns me slightly about the 425 - its in an area a long way from the sea and the speed limit on the river is 20km/hr (about 10kts). The broker says this is normal and if we are concerned about teh engines we should consider getting a specialist engine inspection done.

 

[paulbrown22]

The broker says this is normal and if we are concerned about the engines we should consider getting a specialist engine inspection done.

I'm not sure in that case what a "specialist engine inspection" could fully conclude anyway? If it can't be run under significant load, then whatever they look at visually/mechanically/electronically can't prove that the engines/drivetrains/cooling/etc. are performing correctly under load.

We surveyed and nearly bought a Dale Nelson a couple of years ago, and the surveyor did a very thorough job of testing the engines under full load both individually and together to ensure everything was performing as expected, and that that price point and engine complexity/cost personally I would want that reassurance. When I bought my Saga 26HT last year it was similarly on a speed restricted river and the hull was so fouled after 1 year afloat it couldn't get above 9kn anyway (should hit ~15kn), but at that massively lower price point and with a much simpler engine/drive train that looked to be immaculate (as was the rest of the boat) I decided to take the risk, as the cost difference between lifting/cleaning/relaunching at my yacht club vs. the commercial marina where it was then located would practically buy a new turbo or other significant engine parts anyway! As soon as I arrived at my club we lifted and cleaned it, and hit just over 15kn as soon as we relaunched .

 

[Alicatt]

I think she's leaning to the idea of the bigger galley outweighing the dining area.
When you bought your boat, were you near enough to sea to take it out and run at full power during trial? It’s one thing that concerns me slightly about the 425 - it’s in an area a long way from the sea and the speed limit on the river is 20km/hr (about 10kts). The broker says this is normal and if we are concerned about teh engines we should consider getting a specialist engine inspection done.

Where the boat was for sale was beside Holland’s Deep, big expanse of what is part of the Maas, so we did get to open her up, top speed on the Ocean 37 with the 145hp engines is about 16 or 17 knots and we managed to get her up to just over 17 knots. 20km/h is quite fast for the inland waterways. You really need to put the engines under load and see that they run well and keep their cool


This is Hunter on the Holland's deep the owner is at the helm just then, I was going round checking everything was fine, I took Hunter up under the bridge and opened her up coming back against the flow and got her up to 17knots.

Though this is from a time lapse video, this is Hunter at 32km/h on an unrestricted section of the canal near home where the speed boats play

 

[PaulRainbow]

I think she's leaning to the idea of the bigger galley outweighing the dining area.
When you bought your boat, were you near enough to sea to take it out and run at full power during trial? Its one thing that concerns me slightly about the 425 - its in an area a long way from the sea and the speed limit on the river is 20km/hr (about 10kts). The broker says this is normal and if we are concerned about teh engines we should consider getting a specialist engine inspection done.

How far from the sea is the boat ? We're 10 miles or so from the sea on a river with a 6kt limit, still had a sea trial, i would absolutely not have bought the boat otherwise.

I would not care what the broker says, he's just a salesman and he won't have to pick the bill up if there is something expensive wrong with an engine.

 

[SimonX]

How far from the sea is the boat ? We're 10 miles or so from the sea on a river with a 6kt limit, still had a sea trial, i would absolutely not have bought the boat otherwise.

I would not care what the broker says, he's just a salesman and he won't have to pick the bill up if there is something expensive wrong with an engine.

About 50km from the area Allicat mentions above so 2-3hours, I guess achievable in a day. Will get back to him.

 

[PaulRainbow]

About 50km from the area Allicat mentions above so 2-3hours, I guess achievable in a day. Will get back to him.

Well worth spending the time to do a sea trial, plenty of scope for big bills with engines.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I'm agreement with the others, a proper sea trial including a period of running at wide open throttle, is essential. This was a significant issue for me when I was looking at buying a planing motorboat a few years ago, the boat was at an inland Marina in the UK and about 50 miles from the sea. Total dealbreaker, especially given the fact that neither the broker or the current owner were willing to offer any kind of indemnity or funds retention in the event of engine failure in the first say 50 hours of operation.

 

[Greg2]

Whilst I don’t necessarily disagree re a sea trial reality does have to kick in as few Brokers will be arranging a sea trial at a location that is a considerable distance away. It comes down so what your due diligence on the boat (including engines survey) where it is located indicates, what is possible locally (e.g. running at full chat on one engine puts load on without hitting higher speeds), how much you want that boat combined with availability of other options on the same model and ultimately your attitude to risk.

With this in mind we have decided not to proceed with two purchases because the boats were on Windermere and the non-tidal Thames respectively with no chance of a decent run, even on one engine at a time, but both had issues so we decided it wasn’t worth the risk. In both cases the Brokers wouldn’t consider a clause in the contract about failing to achieve performance etc.

On the other hand we proceeded with two boats in the absence of a full sea trial because they were stock boats at a reputable outfit (Norfolk Yacht Agency) and what we could do did not indicate any problems. That said we were able to get up to speed on a section of the river because speed limit exemptions are a thing on the Broads but it was short stretches as apposed to meaningful runs so running at full chat for a decent period was not an option.

 

[SimonX]

Whilst I don’t necessarily disagree re a sea trial reality does have to kick in as few Brokers will be arranging a sea trial at a location that is a considerable distance away. It comes down so what your due diligence on the boat (including engines survey) where it is located indicates, what is possible locally (e.g. running at full chat on one engine puts load on without hitting higher speeds), how much you want that boat combined with availability of other options on the same model and ultimately your attitude to risk.

With this in mind we have decided not to proceed with two purchases because the boats were on Windermere and the non-tidal Thames respectively with no chance of a decent run, even on one engine at a time, but both had issues so we decided it wasn’t worth the risk. In both cases the Brokers wouldn’t consider a clause in the contract about failing to achieve performance etc.

On the other hand we proceeded with two boats in the absence of a full sea trial because they were stock boats at a reputable outfit (Norfolk Yacht Agency) and what we could do did not indicate any problems. That said we were able to get up to speed on a section of the river because speed limit exemptions are a thing on the Broads but it was short stretches as apposed to meaningful runs so running at full chat for a decent period was not an option.

NYA offer a warranty on their stock boats, don’t they? I spoke to them a few months back about one they had in stock but never followed it up.Seemed like a nice bunch. They have Broom 425 listed at the moment which looks identical to the one in Holland but does have the dinette. Would be ideal if we followed our original plan of buying in the U.K. but we couldn’t afford it without the contribution of our Dutch partners.
There’s another at Norfolk Boat Sales without dinette and we did debate taking a trip up this weekend just to look but I don’t like looking when I know we have no intention of buying. I’d imagine boat people know the same as car sales when people are just kicking the tyres. We are looking at a 39KL tomorrow but I know the broker and he knows why we are coming.

 

[Greg2]

NYA offer a warranty on their stock boats, don’t they? I spoke to them a few months back about one they had in stock but never followed it up.Seemed like a nice bunch. They have Broom 425 listed at the moment which looks identical to the one in Holland but does have the dinette. Would be ideal if we followed our original plan of buying in the U.K. but we couldn’t afford it without the contribution of our Dutch partners.
There’s another at Norfolk Boat Sales without dinette and we did debate taking a trip up this weekend just to look but I don’t like looking when I know we have no intention of buying. I’d imagine boat people know the same as car sales when people are just kicking the tyres. We are looking at a 39KL tomorrow but I know the broker and he knows why we are coming.

NYA do indeed provide a warranty on their stock boats and do so in the context of the provisions of consumer protection laws. They are an excellent outfit to deal with but full disclosure, our son used to be a broker with them way back when.

I applaud your integrity regarding not viewing when having no intention of buying but would say that NYA are open 7 days a week and it is common for people to drop in and view boats. Many won’t actually buy but NYA know that people looking is the first step and making stock available for viewing is part of what they do and you are actually in the market for a 425 and you never know might be minded to think differently if you like the boat. We dropped in last weekend to look at the 39KL - they know we have done a shed load of work to our Hardy (we used their facilities for some of it) and that we are unlikely to change and buy the 39 but at the same time it sparked our interest and they are wise enough to know that if we were to be persuaded the first step is to view. The 425 was outside their office at the time but hadn’t been listed on their website so I was surprised to see it. It is a lovely boat but our pockets could do with being a little deeper but we may pop along to have a look at it
.

 

[SimonX]

NYA do indeed provide a warranty on their stock boats and do so in the context of the provisions of consumer protection laws. They are an excellent outfit to deal with but full disclosure, our son used to be a broker with them way back when.

I applaud your integrity regarding not viewing when having no intention of buying but would say that NYA are open 7 days a week and it is common for people to drop in and view boats. Many won’t actually buy but NYA know that people looking is the first step and making stock available for viewing is part of what they do and you are actually in the market for a 425 and you never know might be minded to think differently if you like the boat. We dropped in last weekend to look at the 39KL - they know we have done a shed load of work to our Hardy (we used their facilities for some of it) and that we are unlikely to change and buy the 39 but at the same time it sparked our interest and they are wise enough to know that if we were to be persuaded the first step is to view. The 425 was outside their office at the time but hadn’t been listed on their website so I was surprised to see it. It is a lovely boat but our pockets could do with being a little deeper but we may pop along to have a look at it
.

Having been on the other end of it many times with cars, its frustrating. Not so much looking, people have test drives , get finance quotes and then you find they are just looking.
We looked at the 39KL locally this morning and think its a too small compared to the 42 but we are going to go and do a tyre kick on another 42 this afternoon just in case we are misremembering its size inside. Her ladyship has a memory of the one in Amsterdam tinted by hospitality and wine!
My BiL is getting back in touch with the broker for the 425 in Holland to see if it can be moved to another marina like Noordschans which is on the large body of water @Alicatt mentioned, to do the trial if we agree to buy.
He is also trying to get in direct contact with the guy who was "maybe" selling the 42CL to see if cutting out selling fees would make his purchase of the bigger boat viable. The broker has said he was "reducing" them but not by how much. it is located on the coast in South Holland so sea trial is no problem. Its a fair bit cheaper as its two years older and has a blue hull which needs polishing but otherwise looked very nice. One owner in 20 years, full service, a lot of upgrades including 2 years old nav suite.

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[Greg2]

Its a fair bit cheaper as its two years older and has a blue hull which needs polishing but otherwise looked very nice. One owner in 20 years, full service, a lot of upgrades including 2 years old nav suite.

​

Beware a blue hull. They look great when newly polished but it doesn't last long as they are adversely affected by UV and will 'bloom' so the surface becomes dull and a little chalky in appearance, particularity on the aft quarters each side of the hull.

The 39KL we looked at has a blue hull and up close it is in need of a compound and polish and that will be a perennial job unless it is wrapped, which in itself is a time limited solution, or painted.

If possible, my two things to avoid on a boat are full teak decks and blue hulls based upon ongoing maintenance and associated cost issues. That said, all boats are a compromise, and our Hardy has teak on every horizontal surface and a blue band around the top of the hull!
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[SimonX]

Beware a blue hull. They look great when newly polished but it doesn't last long as they are adversely affected by UV and will 'bloom' so the surface becomes dull and a little chalky in appearance, particularity on the aft quarters each side of the hull.

The 39KL we looked at has a blue hull and up close it is in need of a compound and polish and that will be a perennial job unless it is wrapped, which in itself is a time limited solution, or painted.

If possible, my two things to avoid on a boat are full teak decks and blue hulls based upon ongoing maintenance and associated cost issues. That said, all boats are a compromise, and our Hardy has teak on every horizontal surface and a blue band around the top of the hull!
.

Yeah, i know about the blooming issues but I think if its the only negative we'd probably go with it. Two of the Linssens had blue hulls but , of course , they are painted steel, which has its own maintenance issues

 

[SimonX]

We had a look at a few more Brooms over the past week and have confirmed our view that a 425 with dinette would be the ideal choice but, as these are as as rare as rocking horse sh*t, a late 42CL is more likely.
The one in Zeeland is still a possibility but my BiL has made contact with the owner and the price isn’t the issue, it’s the timing. He is retiring and using a lump sum from his pension to fund the new (Linssen) boat but that isn’t available to him until May at the earliest.
So we have asked him not to sell without contacting us although we will still be looking elsewhere it’s pretty ideal apart from the blue hull.
It’s had £50 k Euros spent in the past 5 years in upgrades including new house batteries and a larger inverter, new plotter and radar, Yachtmaster remote. new canopy, blinds, mattresses and a host of other stuff.

 

[Skipper Felice]

I'm agreement with the others, a proper sea trial including a period of running at wide open throttle, is essential. This was a significant issue for me when I was looking at buying a planing motorboat a few years ago, the boat was at an inland Marina in the UK and about 50 miles from the sea. Total dealbreaker, especially given the fact that neither the broker or the current owner were willing to offer any kind of indemnity or funds retention in the event of engine failure in the first say 50 hours of operation.

I like to add for your seatrial:
Test and USE the whole battery system - WHITOUT / NO shorepower for at least 4 hours. If you start with the seatrial, first deconnect all shore power, operate the boat with all technology, all instruments, all pumps etc. for some time and see if the batteries operate ok. Go for the seatrial - start the engines offshore / no landline.
Durin the seatrial: Offshore stop for a break / use anchor / have a coffe and some discussion. Then shut down ALL Systems. If you have try out the generator for 1/2 hour and test ... stop generator and have an other 10-20 minutes with whole boat power off. Now .... you should be able to start the whole system from zero to cruise back to your home port and finish your sea trial. Good luck !

After comming back from the seatrial operate the full electric system for at least one hour and check the status, voltage of all batteries.

This can avoid, that you get a boat with old or bad used batteries that will loose all power the next few month - and you have to invest some money for new batteries, perhaps alternators or charging and EMS system ...

 

[PaulRainbow]

I like to add for your seatrial:
Test and USE the whole battery system - WHITOUT / NO shorepower for at least 4 hours. If you start with the seatrial, first deconnect all shore power, operate the boat with all technology, all instruments, all pumps etc. for some time and see if the batteries operate ok. Go for the seatrial - start the engines offshore / no landline.

What happens if the batteries are low and the engines engines don't start ? Besides, the engines will now be hot and the batteries fully charged by the alternators, it was a more useful test, albeit not by much, to start the engine before the seatrial, when they are cold.

After comming back from the seatrial operate the full electric system for at least one hour and check the status, voltage of all batteries.

This can avoid, that you get a boat with old or bad used batteries that will loose all power the next few month.

Is the broker/surveyor.owner going to sit around for "at least an hour" while you do this ? Besides, as above, the batteries will now be fully charged by the alternators, so it's largely pointless.

 

[Seastoke]

Surely ,if you like a boat put deposit down subject to sea trial . If no good get deposit back ,if all good smiling faces all around. Also if you are bringing to the uk by sea , you would need to be very confident.