Lines to cockpit

[Saddletramp]

What are the pros and cons of leading main halyard, reefing lines etc back to the cockpit? A friend pointed out that they will clutter up the cabin roof (which I had just de-cluttered) but then again I will have less need to be up there. Should point out that most of my sailing is single handed and the boat is 26ft.

 

[Robin]

We have all the lines led back with separate leech and tack reef lines for all 3 reefs. The main halyard and kicker also come back, the topping lift doesn't because we have a rigid kicker that supports the boom for reefing. All of our reefing of a large fully battened main and roller genoa is easily handled from the safety and the dry of the cockpit which is a huge advantage. We have 2 banks of clutches (14 all told!) and two self tailing winches on the coachroof under the sprayhood and the tails all sit neatly coiled there out of the way although when reefing/unreefing I lay them out or drop them down the hatch to give a clear run.

You might find the organisers and lines running across the coachroof get in the way of a dinghy or whatever stowed there, but in our case our dinghy stows inflated forward of the mast so no problem.

 

[fireball]

If you can neatly run them back then you get the added advantage of not having to leave the cockpit to do any mainsail changes.

We have running back:
Main Halyard, Spinny Halyard & Kicker on one side
Single Line Reefing - 1 & 2 on the other. OO ... forgot the topping lift!!

For the single line reefing I use just one line and have added blocks to the cringles on the sail which removes the majority of the friction that most single line reefing systems seem to suffer with.

 

[Salty John]

In my opinion leading everything to the cockpit when you are singlehanding will lead to immense frustration. For instance, you have to go to the mast to attach the main halyard, then return to the cockpit to hoist, then return to the mast when there is a snaffu, then return to the mast to continue the hoist. With reefing it's worse. You need arms 20 feet long, or the ability to be in two places at once.
There is a lot of clutter on the cabin top and miles of line in the cockpit.
But then I don't even like roller furling and believe that boats should be sailed from the deck not huddled in the cockpit!
You'll receive contrary opinions from other forumites who will be along shortly.

 

[Metabarca]

I've just had my lines brought back to the cockpit, for two main reasons: it's safer and more convenient when short-handed; I had a wire halyard for the main wound around it's dedicated winch. It took ages to haul up and, worse, ages to pull down - it was always getting stuck.

 

[FullCircle]

All lines led back on ours.
Advantage: SWMBO does not need to leave the cockpit to do 99% of what is required, which makes her safe and happy.
Advantage: Not having to clamber over a heaving deck in all weathers just to show your prowess at balancing and hanging on.
Disadvantage: 2 bags of lines hung on the cockpit bulkhead. Although they are quite comfortable when you lean your back against them.
Disadvantage:. Cost of clutch banks and length of extra lines.
Disadvantage: Extra weight aloft for the 3 single line reefing system . My 3rd reef line is 36m long.

I would not have it any other way.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion leading everything to the cockpit when you are singlehanding will lead to immense frustration. For instance, you have to go to the mast to attach the main halyard, then return to the cockpit to hoist, then return to the mast when there is a snaffu, then return to the mast to continue the hoist. With reefing it's worse.

[/ QUOTE ]

I lead lines back to the cockpit on my boat after a couple of seasons of working from mast and it's fine, a lot better than before, but I also have clutches on the mast for everything too so I have the choice of working either at the mast or from the cockpit or a combination. I use both equally tbh, when I'm initially raising the main or completely lowering it I use the mast clutches and when I'm reefing I use the cockpit ones. I hank on as you do so it's great to be able to raise and lower the foresail from the cockpit. It's also great to be able to tweak the shape of the sail from the cockpit so kickers, outhauls and cunninghams all lead aft too which inevitably leads to them actually getting used properly. I think the versaitility of being able to work from either the mast or cockpit is useful for a singlehander because of the need to sometimes be in two places at once as you say. So I'd recommend to try to enable both if possible if sailing a lot single handed. The cabintop deck does become cluttered, as does the cockpit, but as long as there's a decent side deck and some halyard bags in the c/pit then this isn't a major problem for a singlehander.

 

[michael_w]

I've sailed with both arrangements and by far prefer everything at the mast. The friction losses leading stuff aft is terrrific, even with high quality blocks, etc.

The only two lines I must have aft, are the pole foreguy and the kicker, sheets excepted.

 

[sarabande]

Doesn't it depend on many factors ?

e.g. size of cockpit, availability of space to put jammers, clear run from mast thro' to jammer/winch area , etc ? Sometimes too much trouble to work clearly.

We have a great big conservatory between the mast area / granny bars and the cockpit, and running bits of string back to the stern would need hundreds of turning blocks (ready to jam if a loose loop gets in them)

If safety is a key factor, then the simpler the solution, the less there is to go wrong/get twisted, riding turns.

I tripped on a set of lines running aft across some smooth deck, and spent nearly five months off work with various dents and cracks. I am not a fan of complex solutions.

 

[Malcb]

Singlehanded! definitely a lot easier if all lines are lead back to the cockpit, including single line reefing.

OK, as one forumite has said, you may get the odd SNAFU which means you may have to go to the mast to perhaps, hekp the sail down when dropping the main, but you learn to make sure that doesn't happen.

I had single line reefing fitted last year plus a new set of lazyjacks and a all lines lead back to the cockpit. I've sailed to Falmouth and back this year, during a period of high winds etc, (June 11 to 27) in a 23 footer and have always felt and been in control due to having everything lead back to the cockpit.

 

[DaveS]

Another vote for leading everything back to the cockpit with separate luff and leech lines for each reef. It does mean spending money on clutches - I've 13 - but for a single hander it really simplifies things. It does require a fair bit of planning and experimenting to begin with, especially when arranging blocks at the foot of the mast, to ensure that nothing's foul, but it's well worth it.

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion leading everything to the cockpit when you are singlehanding will lead to immense frustration. For instance, you have to go to the mast to attach the main halyard, then return to the cockpit to hoist, then return to the mast when there is a snaffu, then return to the mast to continue the hoist. With reefing it's worse. You need arms 20 feet long, or the ability to be in two places at once.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must say I do not recognise this scenario. To raise the main I go forward, attach the haliard, then return to the cockpit, unzipping the stack pack cover on the way. Provided the main is raised while head to wind it rarely snags. Reefing is all done from the cockpit (with normal length arms). For example, to take in the first reef the sequence is: release the traveller and maybe some main sheet dependant on the wind angle;release the main haliard and let some out - to a pre-made mark if organised; pull in luff reefing line; pull in leech reefing line; tension haliard; re-set sheet and traveller; pull in slack on all other reefing lines; coil and stow all lines. All operations are single, i.e. only one rope is handled at any one time, and drive is lost for a very short time - certainly less than with a system involving visiting the mast.

 

[Salty John]

I find the problem is that when something does go wrong, as it inevitably does, you need to be in two places at once to sort it out - rather difficult to achieve single-handed. But I do like to keep things simple and for me that means having everything to hand and straightforward. I don't mind working at the mast and all my boats have been set up to allow deck work to be performed safely in bad conditions. I realise I'm in the minority here, but that's the way I like to sail. I have difficulty with the concept of 13 rope clutches leading to a simplification of anything!

 

[SQUIRRELS]

We also have everything at the mast and like that way, but essentially the deck and coachroof are flat and provide a good working platform.

 

[Bajansailor]

The concept of leading everything aft on our boat is most appealing - I have sailed on various boats rigged this way, and it is brilliant when set up properly.
However in reality on our boat it will be rather difficult to acheive, for all sorts of reasons. (Including cost!)

Hence we shall continue with having genoa (roller furling), staysail (hank on, removable inner forestay) and main halyards and reefing lines at the mast. Oh, and the kicker as well.

We do however have a pair of wonderful granny bars P & S of the mast which are very secure for working in.
And we have a tubular goalpost across the forward end of the cockpit (just aft of the mainsheet track) which supports the boom gallows.
When we are on passage I rig extra safety lines P & S from this goalpost to the granny bars. One reason for this is I tend to go forward over the (long flat) cabin top rather than using the safer route along the side deck (knuckles rapped!).
And these safety lines are at waist height when going forward, hence they do give one (well, me) an increased feeling of security (especially when combined with a harness and lifeline).
I just need to remember them when tacking or gybing, as the mainsheet bashes 'em as it comes across......

 

[homa]

Boat size

I have sailed with both.
I sail about 90% of the time singlehanded (half that time is with the family!)

One thing that has not been mentioned is boat size.

My last boat was 25 foot overall - and having everything led aft was definitely safer than having to go forward on the small heaving deck to hoist/drop sail or put in a reef. (I still had to go forward before hoisting and to lower the main)

My present boat is 33 foot overall, there is a lot more deck space for a good foot hold and the motion is a little easier to move around on deck. Everything is at the mast.

My own preference is to go to the mast.

 

[Saddletramp]

Thanks all for the advice. Opinion seems to be divided as expected.
I will probably bring the halyard back first and try it out before committing to the expense of all the equipment needed. Good point about being able to work at the mast. I will retain the cleats on the mast there so there is the option in the case of a failure. In my experience I am more likely to come unstuck returning to the cockpit than at the mast.
I have yet to suss out how to rig up the single line reefing. The previous owner used to jump backwards and forwards between mast and cockpit which does not seem too clever.

 

[DaveS]

It depends what you mean by single line reefing. It's quite common practice to use a single reefing line for the leech reefing point but hook the luff reefing point on to a hook at the mast. If, with this set up, the reefing line and / or haliard is run to the cockpit then jumping back and forward is inevitable - and frustrating when the luff cringle comes off just as you start to tension the haliard... Cleating the reefing line at the forward end of the boom and the haliard on the mast avoids this since then everything is together.

Alternatively (and probably more common terminology) single line reefing describes a system of reefing both luff and leech from the cockpit by pulling in one line. The obvious advantage over double line reefing is needing only half as many reefing lines and clutches. The disadvantages are more friction and greater complexity (some systems involve equalising blocks hidden within the boom. Total rope length in the cockpit ends up roughly the same as with double line reefing.

 

[Saddletramp]

Thanks Dave, I do mean the latter as I have the hook for the luff system at the moment and what I want to avoid is going to the mast at all.

I think I will have to try and lash up a system to try it out on 1 reef to see what is involved. Really need to see it on another boat. I can imagine there will be a lot of line and a lot of friction.

 

[sparkie]

Hello Mac, I did an article recently for my association mag. (Hunter Liberty) describing the new sail control system I installed last year. Some ideas you may be interested in and it would certainly confirm all that has been said about string........ Let me know if you are interested and I will try to get a copy to you somehow.

Sparkie