Lightning Strike, panama

[mandlmaunder]

We all know some one some who has had their boat struck! well yesterday was our turn during a squall s/v Infinity was struck.
Fortunately my wife who was the only person on board was not injured.
The electronics how ever were not so lucky!.
2 GPS chart plotters,ST60 wind, speed, depth, flux gate compass, autopilot, Xantrax 20 inverter charger and the generator are fried. Also the regulator on the portside alternator is not well. A cooked Diode or so I am told!
We wait with baited breath and more than a little trepidation to see what the insurance company say and also the availability of all the new parts and equipment here in Panama.
We were so close to being ready for the next step in our Pacific adventures, you know, the teak was sanded to perfection and oiled up beautifully.
The interior paint job was just finished and looks fantastic.
The repairs to the gel coat were almost finished.
The underside of the hard Bimini is coming along just fine.
Now all the goal post's have been moved!
At least it was only things that got broken and not people!
We will let you know how it goes.
Mark n Lee
S/V Infinity

 

[mikehibb]

Mark n Lee, verry sorry to hear about the damage. Good news that your wife was not injured, however I bet her nerves are somewhat frazzled at the moment ( sorry for the pun)

We were very lucky with our boat, well it was not our boat then, we went down to view with intent to purchase (subject to survey etc) a boat in Marmaris ( Turkey) as we drove to Marmaris we drove through a thunder storm, as in actually in it due to the high hills surrounding Marmaris.
About one hour later we arrived at the marina to find out that lightning had struck the mast of a large cat moored next to our potential purchase.
They had taken the strike and had similar damage to all their electronics. The sad bit was that the cat had just had them all fitted, and new owners had not even taken possesion of the cat.

 

[macd]

Very sorry to hear of your misfortune and hope all can be recovered for you to continue. Thor's hammer gives me the willies, too. Did you have any sort of dedicated lightning protection? This a significant issue since expert opinion much divided and...well..you've been there. Good luck

 

[phantomlady]

Oh no! But could be worse - at least its not your boat!!

 

[noelex]

Sorry to hear about your strike. We were struck about 6 months ago, with very similar results to you in terms of lost electronics. The insurance company (Pantaenius) came good and now we have brand new equipment. Still a bit worried around thunderstorms though.

 

[Jonny_H]

Sorry to hear about the strike - we met a couple of boats in Panama who had suffered a simalar fate. Whereabouts in Panama are you? We found there wasn't much in Colon, but in Balboa there is a Marine Warehouse (he basically has a West Marine catalogue on a table!) but can get stuff from the US within 7 days - we know a few people who used him with success. If your not through the canal you can get a bus from Colon to Balboa for not very much (around $10) though it takes a couple of hours.
There is a good cruisers net in Balboa (possibly VHF 72?) there seems to be a large contingent of US cruisers who stay there long term so they would be able to help you out with sourcing parts etc. The yacht club there will point you towards the long term residents who could help (I know there is a spreadsheet with where you can get everything you need in the city that a US cruiser put together).
Good luck with the repairs and feel free to email us (address on our website) if we can help with pointing you towards any facilities in Panama.
Jonny

 

[fiveflipflops]

Strike

Hi Guys

Sorry to hear about Strike. Keep us posted on what insurance say. We called our broker yachtmaster as few weeks ago and asked about lightening strike as the boat next to us had been hit in Abaco. They said we where covered. Hope this applies to you. Would be interested if the insurance cover cost of posting replacements to you.

Good luck.

David and Emma

s/y five flip flops
Beaufort NC.

 

[macd]

Was the purpose of the original post to garner sympathy, because that's what it looks like? Nor is a kind-hearted insurance company any sort of lightning protection, howver welcome it might be after the event.

From anyone who's had the unfortunate experience of a lightning strike, what would be truly useful to know was whether any lightning protection system was fitted and, if so, whether it did its job.

 

[beormakate]

Reply to Macd

"Garnering sympathy"? Isn't part of the point of the Liveaboard Forum to be a support network for fellow liveaboards, not simply an exchange of practical information? These poor people have had their boat struck by lightning and their equipment destroyed. I would say they deserve a bit of support from their fellow liveaboards, not a snidey comment like that.

Kate of s/y Monty B - part of the real liveaboard community

 

[macd]

"Garnering sympathy"? Isn't part of the point of the Liveaboard Forum to be a support network for fellow liveaboards, not simply an exchange of practical information? These poor people have had their boat struck by lightning and their equipment destroyed. I would say they deserve a bit of support from their fellow liveaboards, not a snidey comment like that.

Kate of s/y Monty B - part of the real liveaboard community

My comment was far from snidey. It was and remains serious.

I'm sure part of the point of the forum is mutual support. You will see if you care to look that I offered my sincere sympathy early in the thread. However, since their original post detailed that all repairs had been well attended to, it seems the time for support had passed.

Another 'part of the point' -- the bigger part, in my view -- is the constructive sharing of experiences. The originators of the thread had been though something harrowing from which we all might have learned potential life- or boat-saving facts. We didn't. But I do grant you that hurt feelings are far more damaging than a lightning bolt, so perhaps the ostrich approach to lightning protection is the one to follow. I've no doubt it will serve you well.

By the way, what dinstinguishes the real liveaboard community from any other one?

 

[fiveflipflops]

Strike

My comment was far from snidey. It was and remains serious.

I'm sure part of the point of the forum is mutual support. You will see if you care to look that I offered my sincere sympathy early in the thread. However, since their original post detailed that all repairs had been well attended to, it seems the time for support had passed.



Where in the original post does it say all has been repaired after strike. They where at the end of doing some work when the strike happened. I do hope in time they post the outcome from there insurance company and how speedily the repair were done in Panama.


David and Emma
s/y fiveflipflops
Solomons Island Chesapeake Bay USA

 

[mandlmaunder]

on going update

Hi Dave n Emma
IT is now 13-9 (6 weeks) and no work other than quotes being made and excepted.
Parts are on order but some are not due until the 19-9 at the earliest.
As for the Lightning protection non is fitted to this boat so no help on that front, sorry.
9 other boats that we are aware of have been struck this year in Panama .
One if the reasons to come this far south was to get out of Hurricane territory, with our insurance Co blessing.
The one thing that we have learned is that you at least get 4/6 days warning of a Hurricane and take appropriate action unlike lightning, which comes and goes in an instant.

 

[pelissima]

I wish you this to be the first and last similar experiense.

But while on the subject, I remember years ago a discussion on a pruduct nothing more than a vertical stick on top of the mast with a brush like top.

And last month looking with envy a posh Swan 40 something, I noticed this apparatus on top of the tree. I googled a bit but did not find it.
Anyone can point to its direction or its usability ??

 

[macd]

My understanding is that the 'brush' device is supposed to bleed electrical potential into the atmosphere, thereby making the boat less of a target for lightning strikes. I can't remember the name of it, but it's mentioned in Nigel Calder's tome (afraid don't have my copy handy), which might help your search.

The other common form of lightning protection involves fitting a lightning rod to the top of the mast (at least 6 inches above any aerials etc), then connecting shrouds/chainplates and mast (assuming metal mast) by 4AWG cable to an earthing plate on the outside of the hull. Obviously metal boats have a huge advantage in this respect (no earthing plate required, and the entire boat is in effect a Faraday cage). However, even with a GRP, ferro or wooden boat, the installation needn't be hugely expensive, although how straightforward it is would largely depend on how easy is access to chainplates etc.

Since the job is so eminently do-able, whether it's worth tackling or not would depend on its efficacy -- prevention being better than any amount of insurance. Hence my query.

 

[pelissima]

Praps you are right, and as I do have my Calder's copy I will go back on the issue.
However, if there is a ready made device iI might prefer it, as sometimes, small details can make the difference.
So if anyone has the name handy, I would be obliged.

 

[Fabian1956]

I also looked what I could do to minimize the damage if a lightning strike hits and asked my yard to bond the foot of the mast directly to the keel, (I have a non encapsulated lead keel), and also to bond all chainplates to the ground system.

Lightning is one of my horrors. I’ve met a few that have been hit. No-one came away unscathed but the most impressive was a man on a cat at the Rivergate hardstand (Brisbane River, AU). He had to replace ALL his electrical and electronic equipment and asked us if we wanted to see the photo of his cat being struck. Next thing, out comes a photo taken by someone across the river during the storm. Very clearly there was the cat behind him with a lightning bolt attached to the top of the mast. Amazing!

This, amongst other yachts and events has convinced me that doing some thing proactive to minimise damage to vessel and crew is essential.

I'm at that point of doing of the grounding to the keel. I’m running a 50mm2 wire from the foot of the keel to a buzz bar (1”x1/4” tinned copper) which has two 3/8 x 1.5 inch bolts connecting the bar to 1” naval bronze keel bolts into the lead keel. I feel it necessary to eclectically connect the keel to the water. Have you done this and how?

Good post thanks

Fabian

 

[cozzykim]

Was the purpose of the original post to garner sympathy, because that's what it looks like? Nor is a kind-hearted insurance company any sort of lightning protection, howver welcome it might be after the event.

From anyone who's had the unfortunate experience of a lightning strike, what would be truly useful to know was whether any lightning protection system was fitted and, if so, whether it did its job.[/q]

[Diplomacy mode on]Perhaps the tone of the post sounded a little unfortunate.[Dm off]

I'm not a liveaboard (who knows, one day)

I am interested in the theory and controversy surrounding lightning strikes on yachts as they seem to be a perfect target.

I was taught in physics that the lightning conductor helped by generating a cloud of protective ions around its tip (point emission) but it now seems that this (which was counter-intuitive) may not be the case.

Nobody really knows what the best defence is but "macd" could be onto something very useful.

As such a large number of yachts are struck why not compile a database/spreadsheet comprising such information as type of hull, any lightning conductors/and what type, amount/type of damage etc.

It may be possible to get a picture of the best tactic to use to limit the damage.

I personally am far more nervous sitting under a 60' ali mast during a storm than I am in a car for example.

It may be that one effective temporary measure would be to trail a copper condutor over the side attached to the mast foot if you haven't taken any other permanent precautions.

Over a couple of years we might be able to draw some useful conclusions.

This forum seems to me to be a good place to try.

 

[Foxy]

We have one of the little brushes on a stick.... complete with the 'insurance certificate' that says they will pay you x$ if you get hit (think about the economics of this... its quite a good money making idea) ...... we've been struck twice! Electronics completely wiped out etc.

Lightning attracting device, more like

 

[Roberto]

another hit

Another one for the statistics

I have been hit once too, it was a long time ago so no gps, no pilot nor any other electronic devices to fry.
It was at night, lightnings everywhere, until one immensely larger flash wiped out our night vision for some seconds, when we began seeing again the first thing we noticed were "pieces of fire" falling down from the masthead, it was the vhf antenna split into two or three parts, all ablaze. Not the nicest thing to see when one recovers the vision.
The vhf radio was broken and smelled burnt plastic, the compass was turning round and round and kept doing so for quite a time, it eventually stopped but had a very important deviation, some 30-40-50 degrees.
We were under engine at the time of the bolt: it kept on running normally, no damages to the alternator, starter motor, etc.
No other apparent damages: nothing at the chainplates, all through hulls intact none "popped out", no damages at mast base; apart from the destroyed antenna+bracket the rest of the mast head was ok.

The mast was keel stepped, with a thick, short cable from the mast base to a keel bolt.
We were four persons, myself and cousin outside, while our two sisters were sleeping down below on the floor, not very far from the mast base. A hell of a relief when we shouted from outside "are you ok there ?" and got the answer "yes all ok, but did we hit something with the boat?". Happily no one was hurt.

 

[cozzykim]

Fortunately my wife who was the only person on board was not injured.
The electronics how ever were not so lucky!.
2 GPS chart plotters,ST60 wind, speed, depth, flux gate compass, autopilot, Xantrax 20 inverter charger and the generator are fried. Also the regulator on the portside alternator is not well. A cooked Diode or so I am told!

It was this part of the OP post that perked up my little ears.

I would guess that anything containing semiconductors will be most at risk as the insulation will not cope with thousands of volts. Regardless of the amount of current, the junction will puncture and be S/Circuit.

It sounds from the posts that I've read that people are more resilient than electronics luckily so my intention was to see if anyone would be interested in creating a DB of strikes that would provide "best evidence" for protective measures that could save some of your electrical systems, or at least improve your chances.

We could post a form to ask people a list of standard questions e.g.

Hull material
Mast material
Keel " "
Type of grounding (e.g. mast/keel/engine/12v/240V all bonded or not)
Any lightning conductors/brushes/dissapators fitted - are they grounded?
Were you trailing a ground cable from mast/shrouds/stays - has it made any difference to what has survived the strike.

It could be that some protection could at least leave you with basic electrics.

Even if no sound conclusions can be drawn, making the information freely available on a spreadsheet/webpage could help people make choices not based solely on marketing claims.

Presumably passing on information like this helped to teach our forbears not to eat certain kinds of berries

Any other suggestions/corrections/epithets welcome

Kim