Lifting Keel Query

[Neddie_Seagoon]

Anyone with opinions about lifting keels? I am considering a Pacesetter 28 with a stub keel enclosing a lifting dagger keel. The (heavy) dagger keel appears to be winched almost directly upwards into the stub and hull. The stub is substantial, like a 4 foot long fin keel cut off to be 1 foot deep. Anyone with any experience of such arrangements? Comments on sailing characteristics or maintenance problems with such keels? Any advantages come to that, other than the ability to reduce draught.

The obvious points seem to me that a) it might be more fragile if I run it into something, b) if I ground I can go below and winch it up c) if I'm motoring or sailing downwind it might theoretically be advantageous to lift it and d) while lifted the C of G might be undesirably high - am I talking out of my backside?

Thanks,

Steve

 

[EBoat126]

I have an E Boat with a lifting cast iron keel which winches verticaly in a box.

When up fully the boat is very tippy as you can imagine, I wouldn't contemplate sailing with it up but motoring doesn't prove problematic although motion is much better with it down.

With the keel locked down the boat is exactly the same as if it had a fixed fin keel.

 

[snowleopard]

I had a similar arrangement but the drop section pivoted up into the stub. There was a problem with rust and fouling inside the slot resulting in the plate jamming. Hopefully yours can be removed for maintenance.

 

[CliveG]

We have a Evolution 25 with a 1/3 ton lift keel.
The keel lifts straight up (at 90° to the water line)
It is lifted by a wire rope that goes over pulley wheels mounted in a steel frame that also supports the mast step.
The rope then goes round a pulley wheel on the top of an hydraulic ram, forwards of the keel box and bulkhead, and back up to the steel frame.
The ram is operated by a pump in the aft end of the cockpit combing.
The keel goes though an open top keel box.
There is no stub keel. The under side of the hull is flush.
When fully lifted the bottom of the keel is within the keel box.

Keel fully up

We can drop the keel as much as we like.
There are 2" holes drilled across the top of the keel and these can be used to lock the keel at 1/2 depth via equivalent holes just below the top edge of the keel box.

Keel half down

The top of the keel is shaped to drop into the bottom of the keel box when fully down and can be held down with a screw jack system mounted in the holes in the keel box.

We can lift the keel when running down wind or motoring but is makes her directionally unstable.
I found this out when we launched her the 2nd time and tried to move her around the marina without the keel down.
She just went sideways even under power.
Just 1' of keel will keep her under control.
We rarely lock the keel down when on the east coast and have had to jack it up on a few occasions this year to get out of difficulty.
The keel does thump about a bit in heavy seas and we will lock it down in those conditions.

As long as we keep a eye on the wire and connections there should be no maintenance issues.
All is fully exposed.

We also have 1/3 ton of lead shot molded into the hull around the base of the keel box.
She is not noticeably more unstable with the keel up as down.
From preference I would leave it down.

 

[tyce]

just out of interest is the pacesetter in the northwest, reason i ask is i know a little bit of history about a few of these

 

[Neddie_Seagoon]

Yes, NW. You probably know which one I'm thinking of. If you want to PM please feel free.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[EBoat126]

Clive,

That looks strangely familiar. We have a 12v electric winch on out keel, it works well with a little manual help.

The cable needs replacing every year & I also replace the keel bolts at the same time.

 

[CliveG]

Most of our cable is straight.
It runs over 3 shaped pulley wheels.
Winding a cable round a tight drum would cause a fair bit of ware.

Our cable looks fine at the moment but I am keeping an eye on it.
Once she is sat on her trailer we lower the keel onto a crossmember on the trailer and take the load of the cable.
It would not be difficult to change in that state.
Also when the keel is fully lowered again there is no load on the cable.

I don't know when it was last replaced but I am sure that it is at least 4 years old.
The owner before last had some seals replaced in the ram 4 years ago.

 

[kengill]

My Gib'sea 96 Master has a lifting keel. The lifting part sits inside a stub keel with no protrusion to the cabin. It pivots on the lower forward corner and will lift up if you hit something.

She only needs the keel down if tacking or - I suppose in high winds but I've never taken her out into an F8 with the keel up.

Some people have found themselves in trouble following us when we've lifted the keel to get over a shoal /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Neddie_Seagoon]

CliveG, Eboat126 - thanks for this, I hadn't given too much thought to the keel lifting gear, which is cable onto a small winch. If I buy it I will keep an eye on that.

Steve