Lifesling

[jimboaw]

I have just bought the expensive commercial version from West Marine and I would like the boards opinions on in.stallation on the boat. The sling has 150 feet of line and the instructions say to make the end fast to the boat. My personal inclination is to affix the end of the line to my "Man overboard" pole. The rational being that 150 feet is not very far and the person in the water could in fact see his salvation being towed away! At least if the pole is deployed with the sling he/she knows that anywhere between pole and sling is a line. What do you think?

 

[Skyva_2]

I understood that the principle of these things is to motor in a loop towing the sling so it encircles the MOB. He then puts on the sling. In theory, anyway. So you need 150 ft of line to keep clear of him. When you motor over the other end it must get interesting....

Keith

 

[Reap]

I assume that the piece of kit you have bought is intended as a hauling line being 150' in which case it should be attached to the boat so you don't lose it. Then after deploying the line, drive round them in ever decreasing circles until they can grab the line.
If the idea is to throw them a bouyancy aid (horseshoe buoy with or without dan buoy) then there is no point having it attached to the boat as the idea is to give them a bouyancy aid whilst you manoeuvre close enough to pick them up or throw a heaving line.
Incidentally if you throw out a danbouy as soon as you know you have lost somebody overboard then it serves as a reference point from where to start a search if you have lost sight of them. If the search fails you always have that reference to return to, to begin another search pattern

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[jeanne]

Has anyone tried to get a line to someone by towing it in a circle around them? I ask this because when I used to go water sking, every time anyone fell the line had to be returned, and this method didn't really work. The line stayed resolutely in the towing boats wake when it circles, and does not 'cut the corner', so the only way to be sure to deliver it was for the boat to practically run down the skier. If the lifesling has more drag in the water than just a handle, that might make the difference: I would be pleased to know that it works.

 

[snowleopard]

once they've put on the sling and you've pulled them in, hook the line through a block on the end of the boom, then round a winch and hoist them aboard.

make sure you try this out in a safe place first. so now you've got swmbo suspended above the water. you are then in a position to cleat the line and head for the pub unless you are permitted...

a new spinaker
a late pass
a weekend with the lads
nooky
the barmaid at the king's head

the only limit is your imagination...

 

[pugwash]

Why the pole?

Is the dan buoy intended primarily to help the MoB locate the lifebuoy, or to help the skipper locate the MoB? Obviously there's a lot of overlap, but what's the dan's main purpose? It matters only when it comes to deployment. Do you chuck over the Dan buoy instantly, then circle round back to it and the MoB? Or do you circle round immediately and drop the Dan buy close to the casualty? I suppose that if it takes some time to turn around the first option is probably better, otherwise the second. What think?

 

[bedouin]

Re: Why the pole?

I must admit I sometimes wonder how useful the danbuoy is!

The usual advice is that the Danbuoy is to be deployed when close to the casuality, to help the boat keep an eye on him.

Don't expect the casuality to be able to reach the danbuoy if it is deployed out of his reach, if it is attached to a lifebuoy then it will probably drift down wind faster than the casuality can swim, even if it does have a drogue (your lifebelts do all have drogues don't they?).

That means that there is little point deploying the danbuoy immediately after the MoB - better spend the time trying to throw him the line, or cushions/ fenders to support and "litter" the area.

 

[Reap]

Re: Why the pole?

Don't forget that you may not know where the man overboard is! You may have just come up from below to discover they are missing. Or an inexperiencved crew may be slow in shouting you from the heads, by the time you get on deck what are the chances of still being able to see them in any kind of sea?
In which case you should head back on a reciprocal course, get to where you estimate they may be and throw the dan buoy overboard. Then begin a search pattern. If this fails go back to the dan buoy (used as a reference point) and start again.
With no reference point you stand very little chance.

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[snowleopard]

technique...

i was taught a good technique during my yachtmaster preparation: as soon as the casualty goes over, do a crash tack leaving the genoa cleated. you are now sailing slowly with the genoa aback and can steer close to the mob and hand him lifebuoy, danbuoy and any other kit. you won't be able to stop long enough to pick him up but you can now broad reach away, tack, then close reach back under control with genoa furled and spilling the main. works every time.

 

[pugwash]

Re: technique...

I've never actually done this stuff yet but it's on the slate for the first good sailing day of spring. What you say makes sense but it seems a shame that you get so close to the MoB then sail away again. If the jenny is already aback why not pass him everything you suggest but include a rope and heave-to alongside him then drag him to the side, get the rope under his arms, and start sorting things out, dropping sails etc?

 

[jimboaw]

Re: Why the pole?

It seems most of you assume that you will know the instant someone has gone over the side. The pole at least gives a reference point in an otherwise featurless landscape. In the warmer waters I sail these days usually just with SWMBO (unfortunately a strong swimmer) I think she or I would at least be able to make some progress towards it whilst the one person left turned the boat around onto a reciprical course to begin a search.

 

[qsiv]

Re: technique...

My only concern would be if the MOB wasnt well trained, and neglected to fall overboard when close hauled. I have real reservations over a crash tack with the kite up.

More seriously - the real issue is that what works well for one boat doesnt work so well for another, so it really does pay to experiment. My tests have lead me to write up standing instructions to the effect that the MOB recovery is better effected under engine. The reason for this is that I have a large (750 sq ft) fully battened main, and it is surprisingly difficult to depower - however with lazyjacks it can be dropped in 10 seconds. The prop is so far under the boat that you cant reach it when in the water, and a powerful bow thruster helps position the boat. Add to all that 30 odd tonnes of diplacement and a crew that may not be experienced, and I honestly feel the best chance is to be had under power.

 

[snowleopard]

Re: technique...

practically, you're on a beam/broad reach, doing 2-3 knots. difficult to bring her to a stop under control. you may be lucky but by doing the reach & return you can be sure of getting back to the spot and stopping. try both ways and see what happens.

if you're doing the ym exam they don't mind how you do the mob drill as long as it works and looks controlled.

 

[bigmart]

Re: technique...

What I find most amusing about the Yachtmaster MOB & most discussions on the subject is they all concentrate on Sailing back to the casualty by one method or another & thats it.

Truth is you would propably drop the sails, check that the prop was clear, & motor back.

The real fun really starts then. Getting someone back on board is a real challenge & until you have tried, the difficulty cannot really be imagined. It is really worth taking a nice summer day and calm seas to try out the best method for your boat. Then imagine what it would be like in even moderate weather.

I suggest that, if you do try it out, you will be frightened enough to either make sure you never go overboard or resign yourself to the fact that you will not survive the experience.

Back to the subject.

Attach the Lifesling to the boat. That way if you do get into it the crew have a method of towing your body to shore. It makes it easier on your family if they have a body.

Morbid or what.

Martin

 

[Guest]

MOB pole, life ring, is to locate MOB

The Lifesling, deployed only once you see the person, is to pick him up. There is no way that you can stop on a dime, and so the more stuff in the water to help you locate the person is important, and anything they can swim to is a help.

You will be amazed at how far you travel after the person has gone overboard. At a leisurely 5 knots, you will travel 8 feet per second! So you must leave some reference point on the water.

Then you must stop the boat, and the best way to do that is to just let go of all the sheets. Forget tacking, jibing, anything but stopping the boat. Once you are no longer moving so fast (!) you can better keep your eye on the MOB, or the danbuoy, turn around and go back. And yes, doing it under power is much better than trying to sail back - just try it with something floating in the water and you'll see how difficult it is when you are short-handed, or with inexperienced crew. When you practice, do it with a duffel bag stuffed with lifejackets, or just throw a life jacket overboard the first few times.

The line attached to the Lifesling is polypropylene, it floats! The ring offers drag, and you're on a sailboat that has virtually no wake, so it will pretty much sit there as you circle the MOB (provided that you don't deploy it until you have your target in sight, and are circling him/her very slowly). If it isn't attached to the boat, don't expect to get it back into the boat with your lost crew attached.

It does take practice. And if there is any chop at all on the water, it is VERY hard to see the person - the reason you've thrown so much "stuff" in the water to mark their relative position.

 

[davidhand]

Go and practice with your lifesling, I did in calm weather it works just like the directions say it will. In heavy seas with all the adrenaline running I dont know. You also need some kind of tackle to hoist the guy aboard with.

 

[jcr]

Re: technique...

You can safely crash tack with the kite up IF you have the spinnaker boom under control. I was made to do it on my yachtmaster course. The method is to have a rope attached to the end of the boom and secured to a strongpoint in the cockpit, in addition to the guy running through. This means that the boom effectively becomes part of the standing rigging, being secured in place by the topping lift, downhaul and this new rope. Of course it is impractical if you are racing, since it is an extra bit to handle, but if cruising on a long leg or short-handed it is an added safety feature.

Dropping the kite on the deck after crash tacking is then just as simple as with a big genoa.

jcr

 

[jcr]

I believe that this was used successfully some years ago by an American couple. The wife successfully recovered her husband using such a sling and was later awarded the Blue Water medal for her rescue.

jcr

 

[qsiv]

Re: technique...

But surely the guy will always fullfill that role, and we certainly always need a foreguy to tame the pole.

It might work in calm conditions - but then the chances of falling OB are probably less then. In any wind I think it would be a significant problem, and probably have the mast out of the boat as the sail flogs in any wind. In moments youd have 2800 sq ft of shredded kite flailing around. with lots of string under the boat to jam the rudder or prop, and so much windage you are unlikely to be able to make ground to windward. I honestly believe it would be a case of more haste, less speed. As for getting the kite down on deck without the shadow of the main - I wouldnt want to try it - by the time its blown through 3 sets of spreaders and jumpers the friction would be monumental. No - I prefer my instruction to cut the guy, (if the sheet goes first the trim could move fwd precipitating a gybe) then the sheet then the halyard - the sail winds up 100 yards or more to lee in 30 seconds, the boat slows down and an inexperienced crew stand a chance. Not easy to do on a YM course, but I suspect more dependable. We never sail dead downwind, so we shouldnt ever sail over the kite, and a sharp serated knife is stowed on the kicker ram for that purpose. Whether the insurers would pay the £6,000 for a new kite doesnt really matter in the circumstances.

To be honest, in cruising mode I doubt I would have a crew who would get the kite down inside 15 minutes - but then again fear is truly remarkable motivator.

 

[snowleopard]

Re: technique...

i think the ym test assumes that any experienced person can motor up to an object in the water.

if the engine won't start or you get a rope round the prop, could you still rescue them under sail or are you going to leave them to drown?